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My 4 speed conversion


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#1 farmall

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:35 AM

I just wanted to put down a few notes for folks here that are considering a 4 speed swap on their montes.  Last year, I bought a car that I felt would be perfect for a project, just like I wanted.  It was a 72 bench seat, 350 4bbl, th350 transmission car.  I wanted to convert it to a buckets, console, big block, manual transmission.  While it is far from being completed (if there is such a thing), I feel that one of the major steps has been accomplished: the installation of the Muncie 4 speed.  I also have the bucket seats in and have a real good lead on a 454 that could be mine in the next few weeks.  Anyway, I wanted to give a list of parts that I needed for this project, just in case someone wants to take this project on:

 

transmission

bolts for transmission to bell housing

bellhousing

bolts for bellhousing to engine

flywheel

bolts for flywheel to crank

clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, line up tool

bolts for pressure plate to flywheel

pilot bushing

hurst shifter

(3) bolts to bolt shifter linkage to transmission

brake and clutch pedal as well as rubber pads for them

upper clutch push rod

z bar

frame mount for z bar (specific for monte carlo)

frame side z bar pivot ball

engine side z bar pivot ball

3 pc z bar plastic bushing with retaining clip

clutch adjusting rod with swivel

clutch rod boot

clutch rod boot retainer

push rod return spring

clutch fork boot

clutch push rod clips

4 speed hump for console

clutch return fork

shifter boot

console boot retaining ring

console

console tunnel

console trim screws

console wiring harness

console extension harness

console mounting brackets

flywheel inspection cover and bolts

starter

speedometer cable

 

Here are a few parts that I will need but have not acquired:

floor shift steering column

speedometer without PRNDL

neutral safety switch

backup light switch

There may be other things but it is drivable at this point

 

Here are a few things to consider:

I am a mechanically inclined person but am not a mechanic.  I spent about a week doing this work, after work and 2 of the days were full days working on the car.  I think I could have done this project in 4 full days.  Now that I have gotten most of it done, I could probably do it again in 3 days. 

Don't buy flywheel and clutch until you get your bellhousing.  The bellhousing will determine which flywheel and clutch you can use.

Make sure your frame mount for z bar is for a first generation monte carlo.  All other a bodies used a similar but different bracket.  Our cars need a specific one.  The clutch linkage kit I bought came with everything for a Monte, and I still got the incorrect bracket.

As far as transmissions go, there are a lot of options with gear ratios, etc.  I would recommend talking to someone that can help you decide what you want.  My car has 2.73 rear end gear.  I opted for a 2.54 first gear in my Muncie.  It operates nicely.  I have good power in all gears.  It probably wont be a tire burner.  I might would go with a 2.90 first gear if I could.

As far as shifters go, I bought the Muncie but before I installed it, it was recommended that I get a Hurst.  Ground Up offers a Hurst competition plus shifter with a Muncie handle.  This is what I bought to make it look correct.  There are probably other vendors as well.

When positioning the hump in floor, install bellhousing, mount shifter (not the handle) to transmission and stick it up to see where to start cutting the floor.  You will need to have cross member in as well to get proper position.  I cut a small enough hole for the shifter to not get in the way of existing floor pan.  Then, once the transmission will set in its correct location, I bolted on the shifter handle and placed the hump where it needed to go based on shifter range of motion.  I marked the perimeter of hump, removes it and cut the hole about one inch inside the perimeter of hump.  After welding it in, I used seam sealer to seal the underside and then coated with POR 15 for protection.

 

I also want to say that I could not have completed this without the great guys on this forum.  I ask any of you to add to this thread to make it informative for any of us considering this swap.

 

 

 

 


1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#2 mymontesa70

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 10:09 AM

great notes


 

 


 
 

 

 

 


#3 LS5

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 08:07 PM

Did you miss the Transmission Crossmember... 4spd is different than an automatic

                            Reverse Lock out Bar as well........

                            E Brake cable.. center pull and mid cable is different than a automatic.

                            steering column plate for firewall, different than an auto as it has clutch rod hole in it.

Floor shift steering column is for an automatic, a 4spd column is different yet again than that of an automatic.

ah......there is sooooo much more than first anticipated ....

Darren.


1970 Monte parts car but not for chevelles... :rofl:

1971 Monte Carlo SS  CDN Built

1967 C10 Short bed fleetside CDN Built.

 

2015 Z71 SIlverado 
FullSizeRender-21_zpslonms5sk.jpg

 

 


#4 LS5

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 08:13 PM

oh also forgot......... you need to get 4 Speed Tires for the car as well. they are different than automatic tires. 4spd back tires seem to wear out 3 times faster........... :rofl:

 

Darren.


  • farmall likes this

1970 Monte parts car but not for chevelles... :rofl:

1971 Monte Carlo SS  CDN Built

1967 C10 Short bed fleetside CDN Built.

 

2015 Z71 SIlverado 
FullSizeRender-21_zpslonms5sk.jpg

 

 


#5 farmall

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:24 AM

Thanks for the addition Darren. 

I was able to use my existing crossmember.  I had a TH350 transmission.  I removed the end caps and rubber on the ends and drilled holes to mount mine.  The TH400 crossmember may or may not work.

I drilled a hole in the steering column plate on mine.

Please elaborate on the steering column differences.  I assumed that a floor shift would work for either.


1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#6 Sam (Bones)

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:47 AM

the crossmember for a TH350 is the same as for a TH400

 

and the steering column for the column shift has the shifter in it, the dash for a column shift has the gear indicator in it also


Sam


70 & 71 montes

#7 farmall

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:58 AM

Yes Sam. I think Darren is saying that a 4 speed column is different than a floor shift automatic column. I don't know what is different about them.

1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#8 LS5

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 05:52 PM

Well here we go with the differences, I hope the pictures turn out ok and not so blurry.

4_speed_lower__zps8f2r3zls.jpg

auto%20column_zpswf77vflg.jpg

 

first steering column is a 4spd column, please note how Short the selecter prong is on the 4spd one

The second column and sorry about tiny picture but notice how much longer the selecter prong is... this is a floor shift automatic column.

 

4spd%20back%20up_zps2hxus4ma.jpg

auto%20safety%20switch_zpsfhghocvw.jpg

 

first Safety switch is actually part 1 of 2 pieces and is for a 4spd car and in actual size its only a 1/4 the size of that of the automatic one.

second picture is the automatic Nuetral Safety Switch and is far different and huge when compared to the 4spd one side by side

 

Hope that helps with the difference in columns..

Darren.


1970 Monte parts car but not for chevelles... :rofl:

1971 Monte Carlo SS  CDN Built

1967 C10 Short bed fleetside CDN Built.

 

2015 Z71 SIlverado 
FullSizeRender-21_zpslonms5sk.jpg

 

 


#9 LS5

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 06:02 PM

Here is part 2 of the safety nuetral switch.... this actually is the Safety part as the clutch has to be depressed and the other part or part 1 is the reverse light activator.

CH28933-lrg_zps1mbjzs7n.jpg

 

and this is where it mounts on the pedal assembly... Very Fragile and can snap easy...

71_chevelle_nss_12_zpsfcsheszd.jpg

 

Darren.


1970 Monte parts car but not for chevelles... :rofl:

1971 Monte Carlo SS  CDN Built

1967 C10 Short bed fleetside CDN Built.

 

2015 Z71 SIlverado 
FullSizeRender-21_zpslonms5sk.jpg

 

 


#10 stangeba

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 06:44 PM

Great topic and information. Thanks guys!


Posted Image
Original Owner since May 14 1971

#11 farmall

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:44 PM

Ok .  So some of the guys have been on me about posting some pictures.  I usually have a hard time getting these on here since the forum switched over.  I will give it a try.

Attached Files


  • stangeba likes this

1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#12 farmall

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:48 PM

Darren, what is the selector prong's function?  I am sure that might seem like a dumb question but I cant think of what the prong selects?


1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#13 Murphy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:19 PM

Nice pics............


I started out with Nothing........I still have most of it!
1971 SBC355, Muncie M20 4-Speed


#14 Sam (Bones)

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:26 PM

that's where the reverse lock out (steering column )  linkage hooks to from the reverse lever on the transmission


Sam


70 & 71 montes

#15 71MonteCarloMD

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:22 AM

Nice pics, curious what you used to clean up under body and what kind of black paint did you use?

#16 farmall

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:52 AM

I used a wire brush on a 4 inch grinder, then applied 2 coats of POR 15.  I removed the exhaust and coated all that I could.  I stopped at the rear axle.  I have plans to drop it one day and clean the rear section, coat it and , paint the rear end, etc.


1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#17 John S

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 12:00 PM

Is that a Muncie shift handle made to fit a Hurst shifter? If so looks original without needing a roadmap to find the gears.

John S


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#18 farmall

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 01:31 AM

It is a Muncie handle on a hurst shifter.  I got it from Ground Up.  It gives you the dependability of the Hurst with original looks of the Muncie.


1972 402cid/ th400 monte carlo
1972 350cid/ Muncie 4 speed monte carlo
2003 Dodge ram 3500 4 x 4 5.9 diesel
2014 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 6.7 diesel
lots of old tractors, 4 wheelers, etc.


#19 Sam (Bones)

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 05:46 AM

Ground up sells the Hurst kit with the Muncie handle or you can buy the Muncie handle separately if you already have a Hurst shifter


Sam


70 & 71 montes

#20 Sam (Bones)

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:48 AM

I just swapped out my original muncie shifter for a hurst...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!  :shifter:


Sam


70 & 71 montes




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