farmall Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I just wanted to put down a few notes for folks here that are considering a 4 speed swap on their montes. Last year, I bought a car that I felt would be perfect for a project, just like I wanted. It was a 72 bench seat, 350 4bbl, th350 transmission car. I wanted to convert it to a buckets, console, big block, manual transmission. While it is far from being completed (if there is such a thing), I feel that one of the major steps has been accomplished: the installation of the Muncie 4 speed. I also have the bucket seats in and have a real good lead on a 454 that could be mine in the next few weeks. Anyway, I wanted to give a list of parts that I needed for this project, just in case someone wants to take this project on: transmission bolts for transmission to bell housing bellhousing bolts for bellhousing to engine flywheel bolts for flywheel to crank clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, line up tool bolts for pressure plate to flywheel pilot bushing hurst shifter (3) bolts to bolt shifter linkage to transmission brake and clutch pedal as well as rubber pads for them upper clutch push rod z bar frame mount for z bar (specific for monte carlo) frame side z bar pivot ball engine side z bar pivot ball 3 pc z bar plastic bushing with retaining clip clutch adjusting rod with swivel clutch rod boot clutch rod boot retainer push rod return spring clutch fork boot clutch push rod clips 4 speed hump for console clutch return fork shifter boot console boot retaining ring console console tunnel console trim screws console wiring harness console extension harness console mounting brackets flywheel inspection cover and bolts starter speedometer cable Here are a few parts that I will need but have not acquired: floor shift steering column speedometer without PRNDL neutral safety switch backup light switch There may be other things but it is drivable at this point Here are a few things to consider: I am a mechanically inclined person but am not a mechanic. I spent about a week doing this work, after work and 2 of the days were full days working on the car. I think I could have done this project in 4 full days. Now that I have gotten most of it done, I could probably do it again in 3 days. Don't buy flywheel and clutch until you get your bellhousing. The bellhousing will determine which flywheel and clutch you can use. Make sure your frame mount for z bar is for a first generation monte carlo. All other a bodies used a similar but different bracket. Our cars need a specific one. The clutch linkage kit I bought came with everything for a Monte, and I still got the incorrect bracket. As far as transmissions go, there are a lot of options with gear ratios, etc. I would recommend talking to someone that can help you decide what you want. My car has 2.73 rear end gear. I opted for a 2.54 first gear in my Muncie. It operates nicely. I have good power in all gears. It probably wont be a tire burner. I might would go with a 2.90 first gear if I could. As far as shifters go, I bought the Muncie but before I installed it, it was recommended that I get a Hurst. Ground Up offers a Hurst competition plus shifter with a Muncie handle. This is what I bought to make it look correct. There are probably other vendors as well. When positioning the hump in floor, install bellhousing, mount shifter (not the handle) to transmission and stick it up to see where to start cutting the floor. You will need to have cross member in as well to get proper position. I cut a small enough hole for the shifter to not get in the way of existing floor pan. Then, once the transmission will set in its correct location, I bolted on the shifter handle and placed the hump where it needed to go based on shifter range of motion. I marked the perimeter of hump, removes it and cut the hole about one inch inside the perimeter of hump. After welding it in, I used seam sealer to seal the underside and then coated with POR 15 for protection. I also want to say that I could not have completed this without the great guys on this forum. I ask any of you to add to this thread to make it informative for any of us considering this swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymontesa70 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 great notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Did you miss the Transmission Crossmember... 4spd is different than an automatic Reverse Lock out Bar as well........ E Brake cable.. center pull and mid cable is different than a automatic. steering column plate for firewall, different than an auto as it has clutch rod hole in it. Floor shift steering column is for an automatic, a 4spd column is different yet again than that of an automatic. ah......there is sooooo much more than first anticipated .... Darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 oh also forgot......... you need to get 4 Speed Tires for the car as well. they are different than automatic tires. 4spd back tires seem to wear out 3 times faster........... Darren. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks for the addition Darren. I was able to use my existing crossmember. I had a TH350 transmission. I removed the end caps and rubber on the ends and drilled holes to mount mine. The TH400 crossmember may or may not work. I drilled a hole in the steering column plate on mine. Please elaborate on the steering column differences. I assumed that a floor shift would work for either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 the crossmember for a TH350 is the same as for a TH400 and the steering column for the column shift has the shifter in it, the dash for a column shift has the gear indicator in it also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes Sam. I think Darren is saying that a 4 speed column is different than a floor shift automatic column. I don't know what is different about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Well here we go with the differences, I hope the pictures turn out ok and not so blurry. first steering column is a 4spd column, please note how Short the selecter prong is on the 4spd one The second column and sorry about tiny picture but notice how much longer the selecter prong is... this is a floor shift automatic column. first Safety switch is actually part 1 of 2 pieces and is for a 4spd car and in actual size its only a 1/4 the size of that of the automatic one. second picture is the automatic Nuetral Safety Switch and is far different and huge when compared to the 4spd one side by side Hope that helps with the difference in columns.. Darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Here is part 2 of the safety nuetral switch.... this actually is the Safety part as the clutch has to be depressed and the other part or part 1 is the reverse light activator. and this is where it mounts on the pedal assembly... Very Fragile and can snap easy... Darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Great topic and information. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ok . So some of the guys have been on me about posting some pictures. I usually have a hard time getting these on here since the forum switched over. I will give it a try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Darren, what is the selector prong's function? I am sure that might seem like a dumb question but I cant think of what the prong selects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Nice pics............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 that's where the reverse lock out (steering column ) linkage hooks to from the reverse lever on the transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71MonteCarloMD Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Nice pics, curious what you used to clean up under body and what kind of black paint did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 I used a wire brush on a 4 inch grinder, then applied 2 coats of POR 15. I removed the exhaust and coated all that I could. I stopped at the rear axle. I have plans to drop it one day and clean the rear section, coat it and , paint the rear end, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is that a Muncie shift handle made to fit a Hurst shifter? If so looks original without needing a roadmap to find the gears. John S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 It is a Muncie handle on a hurst shifter. I got it from Ground Up. It gives you the dependability of the Hurst with original looks of the Muncie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ground up sells the Hurst kit with the Muncie handle or you can buy the Muncie handle separately if you already have a Hurst shifter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I just swapped out my original muncie shifter for a hurst...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I knew you'd come around............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Some GREAT information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss454-71 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Are there any difference from a 70 vs 71? I think the clutch return spring bracket is different? I had the opportunity to look over two original 4 speed cars this week. The first photo is of a 71 402 4 speed car and you can see a spring bracket on the inside frame rail adjacent to the filter. The second photo is a 70 350 4 speed car and it doesn't have the bracket. Perhaps it's a small block vs big block rather than 70 vs 71 but I'm thinking it's a model year thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 according the the 1970 assembly manual, the spring just hooked to a hole in the frame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss454-71 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 according the the 1970 assembly manual, the spring just hooked to a hole in the frame Can you upload that page? A photo would do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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