sredmyer Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 So I was reading a thread on a Camaro forum where they were talking about repro cowl tags. The guy who started the thread was trying to figure out whether the tag on his car was real or not. After a few posts the thread devolved into a pretty heated debate over whether or not the practice of using repro (fake) tags was damaging the hobby or not. On the one side were the purist who felt that even if the repro tag contained the same information as the original it was just wrong to replace it. On the other side were folks who felt that the repros were ok. Some even thought it was ok to make changes to the tag (interior or exterior color, bench or bucket seats, etc.) so that the car could be made what the owner wanted. I am not really sure how I feel about it. I do think that just reproducing the original (no changes) is no different than using any other reproduced part. I think I would also be alright with changing things like color and such that don't really change the value of the car. I would however, draw the line at making changes to the tag information when it is done solely to increase the value of the car. For example, adding the Z20 code to a Canadian built cowl tag would definitely, in my view, be wrong. That said, changes such as that could easily be discovered so there wouldn't be much point to doing it. I am curious what folks here think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I sometimes wonder if my tag on my car is the correct one. According to the tag it has a paint code of 34 and I find no sign of misty turquoise anywhere on the car but I find black cherry everywhere. Black cherry was under the trunk seal when I removed the rubber seal to replace it. As far as replacing them with what you desire it to say is in my opinion unethical. Since the motor was replaced I don't think their is any way of determining if my tag is the right one or not. I guess I live in limbo on this one. I still believe my cars original paint is black cherry. Maybe my car is hot???? But as far as I can tell the rivets that hold the tag look original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Here in the US some in some states it is illegal to mess with the VIN tag. The Manufactures have to use special rivets to attach the tags to the cars and trucks. I have not found anywhere to buy these rivets. I know of some guys who rebuilds totals and if they have to replace the cab or the cowl section on a car they cut the part of the dash that has the tag and very carefully remove the rivets and then reinstall them on the replacement parts making it look original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Here in the US some in some states it is illegal to mess with the VIN tag. The Manufactures have to use special rivets to attach the tags to the cars and trucks. I have not found anywhere to buy these rivets. I know of some guys who rebuilds totals and if they have to replace the cab or the cowl section on a car they cut the part of the dash that has the tag and very carefully remove the rivets and then reinstall them on the replacement parts making it look original. I am referring to the cowl or trim tag...not the VIN tag. As far as I know it is illegal to alter or reproduce a VIN tag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Can anyone tell if this tag looks like it was messed with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrj52 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Repro tags are good idea only if you retain the original tag, to show providence. But I cant help but feel that it leads to the making your car your own and then go to sell it and it becomes this sought after one off muscle machine. Lets take this to the extreme at the cheap end. I want an original cheap 3 speed on the column shift bare bone Monte. No options nothing and I end buying my dream car and find out that some one took a Yenko, LS6, 4 speed Monte and converted it to a worthless Bait and switch car dealer lot vehicle replete with the fake cowl tag, build sheet etc. I would be pretty pissed because it not what I wanted regardless of what its true original shape was before. And to top it all off there is no way you could put it back because of the doubt factor. "O" its that car............My 1/2 cent worth of rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrj52 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 That Tag looks like it hit with a sander a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Can anyone tell if this tag looks like it was messed with? Sorry, I have no idea how one goes about determining if it is real or not. I simply don't think I would know a fake tag if it walked up and smacked me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think it's real just don't know if it's the correct one. Like I said I find no misty turquoise anywhere. Gets me wondering when I see black cherry paint everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71MonteCarloMD Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I always love original and stock so cowl tags would help to reatore back to original so repro would give false info on any car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve70Carlo Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I feel like as long as you're not using the repro tag in an effort to make the car something it's not, I would be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostnFound Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Reproduction Cowl Tag To Same As Original: At the very least, I would want the original cowl tag to be able to compare and also documentation to back it up to prove authenticity of the car but I still don't like it. Changing Cowl Tag Info: Having a cowl tag changed to include different info I just don't agree with. What would the motivating factor be other than dishonestly trying to make someone believe that the car is something it is not? That's my 2 cents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 The only people who would b that concerned about changing a cowl tag, in my opinion, would be someone who may be trying to pass a car off as something that it is not. If that is why someone would do it then in a sale they are misrepresenting the car to a potential buyer thus being dishonest. My body tag proves, to people who would doubt, that it is an original two tone painted car. If someone was to reproduce a Canadian SS tag they could pass a non SS car off as a SS car, again being dishonest. I am not trying to compare an SS car to a two-tone painted car, just pointing out there should be no reason for changing the cowl body tag. To tell you the truth, if I noticed a body tag had been changed I would think twice about buying that car because if the seller was would misrepresent the car with a fake body tag I would have to wonder how else he/she would be misrepresenting the car. The only time it would not bother me is if the car was already modified and I wished to further modify the car in which case a fake cowl body tag would mean nothing anyway. Just my thoughts on the matter rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 That Tag looks like it hit with a sander a little. The rubber bumper at the bottom of the hood rubs and contacts that area when hood is shut...often times even wearing or flattening the characters out in that area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I think it would be a cool idea to fake a cowl tag up on a car like my modified 72, it would be funny, add bogus codes, or like put RICEKLR somewhere on the tag along with 462, and gear ratio. I would also put Z20, Z03, and SS 454 LOL The rivets are for sale in Hemmings everywhere, and places to reproduce a Rusty or missing VIN plate as long as you can prove ownership, common problem on a rusty A-body, the VIN plate can literally rust away, I've seen it a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC-71 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Hey Rock. What do the rivets look like holding your Vin Tag? Can you post a picture? Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Yeah, I can get a better pic, I also need to get a pic of the color I see everywhere around the body. Looks like black cherry to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 there is a hidden partial VIN under the heater box, right below where the blower motor is, but the heater box must be removed to see it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72jrfan88 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 This is an example of a altered cowl tag I believe. Or one that was at least taken off body at one point. The rivets don't appear correct? This isn't my car but a picture I found online awhile back. Let me know what you all think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC-71 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Your trim tag rivets look okay. Post a picture of your Vin Tag under the windshield. Those rivets are the ones I would be concerned with. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 You can see in the first pic the Black cherry paint under the trunk seal. I see no sign of misty turquoise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostnFound Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 IMG_1872.JPGIMG_1875.JPGIMG_1876.JPG You can see in the first pic the Black cherry paint under the trunk seal. I see no sign of misty turquoise. Maybe at the time it was sprayed black cherry it was taken down to the bare metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have no idea......pretty sure it has been through a few paint jobs but I would think I would see a sign of the original color somewhere. Even the tail light bezels are black cherry. I thought for sure the original color was black cherry. I actually thought about going back to origanal until things didn't match up to the tag. The title matches the VIN so I'm not to worried. The car is 47 years old! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC-71 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Sorry. I forgot the dash pad covers the rivets. You would need to slide the cover towards you. The rivets look like a sun flower. If they are regular pop rivets that will tell you that it was removed at one time and replaced. Or it was from an other monte. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I think it's real just don't know if it's the correct one. Like I said I find no misty turquoise anywhere. Gets me wondering when I see black cherry paint everywhere. GM has been known to be sloppy with color codes. Many silverado trucks and vans in the mid 90s through the mid 2000s had incorrect color codes (metallic red and a metallic beige would show code 8554 which was white). Mid 70s to early 80s camaros had the same issues (black Camaros would show a code for silver). I cant see the Monte being excluded form errors like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.