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Clutch Return Spring(s) ???


Mike Brichta

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I am beginning to put back together the "z" bar on my Monte and am confused about the clutch return spring(s).

 

Are there 2 springs or just 1? I tried to get some diagrams but get conflicting results. Some say there are 2 springs and others say only 1. I am working on a 72 Monte with a small block engine with headers. Some pictures would be great.

 

Help!!

 

Thanks!!

Mike

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Hey Mike, I'm using two. I had tried the 1 spring method but didn't care for the feel plus I wanted to insure the adjustment rod from the fork was always snug. Here's a photo I have of current setup before the headers went on, the 2nd spring (not shown) went from Z-bar to the frame as shown in the photo from the manual. Good Luck!

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Mike,

 

My 402/M20 has one fairly stout spring as shown on p 217 of the Factory Assembly Manual.  It hooks between the exposed end of the clutch fork and a slotted hole in the frame.  The part number listed for the spring is 3920614.

 

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Thanks guys!! I guess I will have to look for the "slot" in the side of the frame. I've already installed the z-bar frame bracket and lock-out mechanism but didn't notice a slot in the frame anywhere. I will have to take another look.

 

Also, what rear gear ratios are you guys running? I have a 3.45 posi.

 

Hey Murphy, when you said you didn't like the feel of a single spring, what did you mean? Was there too much play in the fork/rod area? Also, I am going to a wedding next month in Scottsdale AZ. How far are you from there? It might be neat to meet a member in AZ and see your car. Just a thought.

 

Thanks!!

Mike

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Mike,

 

I have a 12 bolt 3.31 posi behind my M20 (2.52 first gear) which gives an overall ratio of 8.34 at launch.  Since your M21 has a 2.20 first gear, your 3.45 rear will give a 7.59 overall drive ratio at launch.  Our rear tire size also figures into the initial launch ratio - I am running a 28" tall 275/60 -15.  Our Montes are heavy cars so getting them moving is matter of initial drive ratio and torque.

 

I have a Hayes clutch and pressure plate in a Lakewood housing so I am not sure how that compares to the stock counterparts.  I do know that my clutch pedal requires significant pressure to disengage so I think a great deal of the pedal return feel is also affected by that.  I believe the return spring is stock but it was hooked to a washer welded to the long tube headers on the car when I bought it.  When I upgraded the entire exhaust system last spring, I moved the spring over to the slot in the frame where the assembly manual shows it.  I didn't notice any change in the feel of the clutch pedal as a result.

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Mike, yes there felt like a bit of looseness or play in the fork, and I read that for longer life of the bearing, adding this spring to insure that there is NO contact with the clutch fingers. I'm just south of Scottsdale about 20 miles, give me a call and we possibly can meet up!  602-397-0238 cell

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  • 5 years later...
On 10/4/2017 at 6:35 AM, MCfan said:

Mike,

 

I have a 12 bolt 3.31 posi behind my M20 (2.52 first gear) which gives an overall ratio of 8.34 at launch.  Since your M21 has a 2.20 first gear, your 3.45 rear will give a 7.59 overall drive ratio at launch.  Our rear tire size also figures into the initial launch ratio - I am running a 28" tall 275/60 -15.  Our Montes are heavy cars so getting them moving is matter of initial drive ratio and torque.

 

I have a Hayes clutch and pressure plate in a Lakewood housing so I am not sure how that compares to the stock counterparts.  I do know that my clutch pedal requires significant pressure to disengage so I think a great deal of the pedal return feel is also affected by that.  I believe the return spring is stock but it was hooked to a washer welded to the long tube headers on the car when I bought it.  When I upgraded the entire exhaust system last spring, I moved the spring over to the slot in the frame where the assembly manual shows it.  I didn't notice any change in the feel of the clutch pedal as a result.

Good morning,  does the spring ride against the headers with the bracket in place? Do you have a picture of yours?  I just got my M23 installed, and ordered the return spring bracket, adjuster, and spring from the parts place.   The conversion kit I received was for a chevelle and a few of the parts did not work. I have the Americans bolted to my LS-7, but am not seeing a unimpeded line to the frame for the spring.

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A few pictures of the 4 speed conversion - really more of a before and after and a few of some progress as it seems I'm doing noting but little projects within the larger ones ha.   Oil pressure sending unit plumbed, starter solenoid wire routed, clamped and heat shielded, Zbar in place, trans crossmember installed. Need to finish up with the correct return spring and linkage, Acquire and run the battery cables, decide where to mount the coil, decide which ground straps and where it install,  then reinstall the wheel liner, and shroud/rad etc.   Its a lot more fun when you dont have to drive it to work on monday ha

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19 hours ago, riverdogs00 said:

Good morning,  does the spring ride against the headers with the bracket in place? Do you have a picture of yours?  I just got my M23 installed, and ordered the return spring bracket, adjuster, and spring from the parts place.   The conversion kit I received was for a chevelle and a few of the parts did not work. I have the Americans bolted to my LS-7, but am not seeing a unimpeded line to the frame for the spring.

Hey, Mike, 

When I replaced my old rusty full-length headers (that had been severely massaged to fit years ago) I was unable to find any direct replacement for a big block first gen Monte with a manual transmission.  There are numerous full-length headers for big block Montes with automatics but their #7 tube sweeps back into the space where the clutch Z bar operates.  Consequently, I chose to go with the Patriot "shorty" header that comes down and exits at a 45 degree angle.  

I am not where I can look at my car right now but I am certain there was no interference with the new headers and the clutch arm return spring.  I checked my project photos and only show that spring hanging down during the installation of the new headers (see below). 

Since that spring was formerly connected to a washer welded to the old full-length headers (rather than the hole in the frame), I am wondering if you might have to do something similar with your new headers? You may even have to substitute a completely different length and power of spring in order to connect it to an alternate location that will work.  Good luck.

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6 hours ago, MCfan said:

Hey, Mike, 

When I replaced my old rusty full-length headers (that had been severely massaged to fit years ago) I was unable to find any direct replacement for a big block first gen Monte with a manual transmission.  There are numerous full-length headers for big block Montes with automatics but their #7 tube sweeps back into the space where the clutch Z bar operates.  Consequently, I chose to go with the Patriot "shorty" header that comes down and exits at a 45 degree angle.  

I am not where I can look at my car right now but I am certain there was no interference with the new headers and the clutch arm return spring.  I checked my project photos and only show that spring hanging down during the installation of the new headers (see below). 

Since that spring was formerly connected to a washer welded to the old full-length headers (rather than the hole in the frame), I am wondering if you might have to do something similar with your new headers? You may even have to substitute a completely different length and power of spring in order to connect it to an alternate location that will work.  Good luck.

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Hi Dennis, thanks for the reply. I have the american racing headers, and do not as of yet have the proper spring and bracket. The clutch itself does most of the return pressure, and I guess I just need a decent spring for the fork/linkage to stay in contact.  The springs that I have I believe are Chevelle springs and way too long. Will see what the parts place delivers and how they differ - will provide pics if they are.

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3 hours ago, Montemedic said:

Old school tunnel ram. I love it !!!

Yup, its an Offenhauser from back in the day ( I actually have 2 of them), and a couple of NOS 660 center squirters I found. Both the engine builder, and Steve Brule were impressed with the throttle response.  

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21 hours ago, MC1of80 said:

Here is a pic of when we removed the body from our 71 402 4speed with hooker comp headers. No massaging on these. 

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That pic helps a lot. It looks like the frame end of the spring is really long.

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