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I have a matching number 71 SS but with no paperwork but complete matching number driveline. How bad would I hurt the value if I was to Mack it a stick car. I am doing a full frame off on it as we speak and with no intention of ever selling it but just wondering. What do you guys think

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I think modifications to a low production model of any car is OK-so long as the modifications can be un-done putting the car back to original.

 

Adding a 4 speed involves cutting the transmission tunnel so yes, the car's value as an SS would take a hit.

 

If it were me, I'd look for a less specialty version like a everyday 350 car to modify, keeping the more valuable car original and retaining it's value.

 

Having said this, it's your car, build it your way if you want it and you're not concerned about it's potential value down the line.

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Thanks Paul. It's a hard call as i don't know what kind of value loss it has already taken without the build sheet. I am a numbers guy for the most part as what makes this such a hard call. Thanks again for the hood and Merry Christmas

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I have to agree with Paul. With that being said, you state your drivetrain is numbers matching. To me, that is just as good as paperwork in proving your cars originality as an SS. I purchased my 70 SS without the engine and trans. A flint car, so no build sheet to prove it. But all else is there. I would keep your car original with only bolt on mods. Good luck on whatever you choose and look forward to seeing it!

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Thanks guys. I was unsure of the value. But as i stated its matching right to the distributor, alt and carb. I use to be a Vette guy and they are crazy about the build sheet being everything. I will continue the build as planned with keeping its originality except for the hood. But will have the original painted as well.

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I would not do it. That car is too rare to mess with. Just because you do not have a build sheet does not mean that it is not a real SS. If all the numbers are correct and look legit it is still a real car. Not all cars came with build sheets in them.

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I guess you really need to ask yourself a question. Are you building it for yourself to enjoy or are you building it to resell. You only go around once and I would make the car what I wanted it to be. If you use all correct factory parts and make it look like it came from the factory, I think it would add value to a unique car like a 71 SS 454 that was not available with a 4 speed. I owned a 70 original 402 4 speed that had a GMPP ZZ454 installed and SS454 badges. Did that hurt its value? I don't know, I drove for a while and sold it and made a little money on it and probably sold it too cheap. People were very intrigued by the car and the fact that a 4 speed was even available in a Monte Carlo. If a buyer doesn't like the 4 speed they could always convert it back to an automatic and sell the 4 speed changeover and come out on top. JMHO.

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Joe, I can understand your being on the fence  On one hand your are worried about hurting the value but on the other hand you say you don't plan on ever selling the car.  If that is the case then hurting the value should not be much of a concern....... BUT, on the other hand if you are worried about how the value would be affected should something happen to you and you would want your heirs to be able to get the most value out of the car then it would make sense to keep the car as original as possible.

 

I have a somewhat slanted view because I like an all original vehicle, both my Monte Carlo and my 1929 Model A Ford are all stock so most of the time I would advise people to go STOCK but over the years I have grown to appreciate people wanting to make their car their own with special alterations to suit their fancies.  

 

Joe, all I can say is do what your heart and mind tell you to do with the car and enjoy it.  

Merry Christmas

rob

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Thanks guys. It is a hard call. Like many if these cars mins has gotten some floor pan repair but not an overlap job I butt welded them and ground them smooth. So I'm sure the same could be done for the transmission hole if I were to convert it. Like I said a hard call.

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Joe,

 

Although I am definitely in the "build it the way you want to drive it" camp, I personally believe that converting your '71SS to a 4 speed would actually increase its value!  I have attached several photos of just such a conversion that happens to be the only first gen Monte Carlo in Rick Treworgy's vast collection of GM muscle cars. 

 

The photos were taken in the Muscle Car City Museum here in Punta Gorda which contains some of the finest and rarest muscle cars to be found anywhere.  As you can see in the photos, except for the chrome rally wheels, this tuxedo black '71 SS looks like it just rolled off the factory floor. 

 

post-567-0-87706800-1514237243_thumb.jpgpost-567-0-34218400-1514237446_thumb.jpgpost-567-0-42629900-1514237309_thumb.jpgpost-567-0-08381600-1514237326_thumb.jpgpost-567-0-50156700-1514237340_thumb.jpg

 

Having owned and driven both a '70 SS and a '70 BB 4-speed for the past six years, I would happily pay at least a $5K premium to own a well-executed SS 4-speed.  That is the car Chevrolet should have built but didn't because it would have clobbered their Chevelle SS sales.

 

When I first saw the '71 SS 4-speed in Rick's museum, I asked his staff about it.  They admitted that it was not a factory configuration but it was also not for sale, either.  Just this month, Muscle Car City closed down their current location while they move to new facilities about one mile south on US 41.  Rick used to display around 200 of his vast collection of muscle cars and slowly rotate them through.  His new location has a larger restaurant, consignment area and retail space (speed shop and auto memorabilia) but a somewhat smaller museum.  Lots of us are wondering if Rick will actually downsize his collection or if he will just be content to feature fewer of them at one time in the museum.  He is not known for selling anything from his collection in the past, although many have tried to buy individual cars. 

 

My point is that if a '71 SS 4-speed wasn't worth a lot because of it's uniqueness or desirability, it would not be in Rick Treworgy's collection.  I say, do a nice job of converting it, enjoy driving it as long as you want and sell it one day for a premium - that's a win-win IMO!  Good luck with the conversion!

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Joe,

 

Although I am definitely in the "build it the way you want to drive it" camp, I personally believe that converting your '71SS to a 4 speed would actually increase its value!  I have attached several photos of just such a conversion that happens to be the only first gen Monte Carlo in Rick Treworgy's vast collection of GM muscle cars. 

 

The photos were taken in the Muscle Car City Museum here in Punta Gorda which contains some of the finest and rarest muscle cars to be found anywhere.  As you can see in the photos, except for the chrome rally wheels, this tuxedo black '71 SS looks like it just rolled off the factory floor. 

 

attachicon.gifDSCN2178.JPGattachicon.gifDSCN2179.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_5338.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_5339.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_5340.JPG

 

Having owned and driven both a '70 SS and a '70 BB 4-speed for the past six years, I would happily pay at least a $5K premium to own a well-executed SS 4-speed.  That is the car Chevrolet should have built but didn't because it would have clobbered their Chevelle SS sales.

 

When I first saw the '71 SS 4-speed in Rick's museum, I asked his staff about it.  They admitted that it was not a factory configuration but it was also not for sale, either.  Just this month, Muscle Car City closed down their current location while they move to new facilities about one mile south on US 41.  Rick used to display around 200 of his vast collection of muscle cars and slowly rotate them through.  His new location has a larger restaurant, consignment area and retail space (speed shop and auto memorabilia) but a somewhat smaller museum.  Lots of us are wondering if Rick will actually downsize his collection or if he will just be content to feature fewer of them at one time in the museum.  He is not known for selling anything from his collection in the past, although many have tried to buy individual cars. 

 

My point is that if a '71 SS 4-speed wasn't worth a lot because of it's uniqueness or desirability, it would not be in Rick Treworgy's collection.  I say, do a nice job of converting it, enjoy driving it as long as you want and sell it one day for a premium - that's a win-win IMO!  Good luck with the conversion!

Its  a nice looking car and it does have several items that are not factory.   The 4 speed install looks good.

Orbit see no reason to convert as there is a hole there already for the automatic. Later RJD

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Looks like I'm gonna stick with keeping it an automatic. I can't bring myself to alter a totally matching number car just to have a 4 speed. Even though no build sheet its still original numbers matching drive line. So on with the build. Thanks guy for all your input

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I think you made a very wise choice. At a car show as soon as people would have noticed that your SS 454 has a 4 speed, they would now wonder about the car as a whole. Asking them self is this truly an SS car. Knowing that GM did not build any with a 4 speed as an option. Even without a build sheet if all the correct legit numbers are in place and the car has all the correct items on it, it is a SS car until someone can prove otherwise. Yes, a build sheet is nice, but with all the correct information they can be faked easier than the numbers.

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It looks as if you have already made your decision but allow me to add my 2 cents.  If you are going to keep your car I would do the 4-speed and don't worry about the naysayers as you are building it for YOU.  I also agree with a previous poster that a well-executed 4-speed SS454 would probably carry a premium price over a stock car.  After all, GM made 4-speed Montes from the factory in 350 and 402 configurations so go for it.  I am a Corvette guy and even on the Board of Directors of an Ohio NCRS chapter and know all about numbers-matching but all these guys seem to do is look at their cars and treat them as museum pieces.  I however, like to DRIVE my cars and am a resto-mod type of person.  I try to tastefully modify my cars to improve their driveability but not make things obvious so that the cars maintain their original personality.  I did a frame-off restoration on my '65 Corvette coupe to which I added FAST throttle-body electronic fuel injection to the roller-cam motor, a Tremec TKO 5-speed and rack & pinion steering.  It is a BLAST to drive and the average enthusiast doesn't have a clue as to what i have done!

 

To finish this opinion I will mention that I also own a '70 SS454 Monte that I bought several years ago that had already been converted to a 4-speed, probably decades ago from the looks of it and using all factory parts.  The car is fun to drive and drive it I do.  In order to improve it even more I just finished up a year-long project to further improve it by building a roller-cam internally-balanced 454 topped by an MSD throttle-body electronic fuel injection and backed by a Tremece TKO 600 5-speed.  It looks stock but the driveability will be improved considerably.  So, are you restoring a museum piece OR do you want to have fun banging gears?  Again, just my 2 cents.  

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If somebody did a 4 speed SS Monte and did it right I would have no issue buying it over a stock Monte SS of equal or lesser value. You wanna drive it or look at it on a trailer from show to show? I have seen resto mods catch a pretty penny on Mecum. I say go for it!

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Man it's a hard call. If I was to do the 4 speed it would be an M21 dated to my car with reproduction Muncie stick to a Hurst shifter and I have the NOS rubber boot and all reproduction wiring

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I have a 70 402 4 speed car. The original 402 is long gone (my bad!) with a 454 in it now. I also had a real 71 SS454 Monte for several years back in the mid 70's. I have to say the 4 speed car is way more fun. This is just my opinion but these are not hand crafted museum pieces. They were assembly line produced cars made to be driven. Properly store your factory pieces, convert it to a 4speed or a 5 speed using correct parts and drive the snot out of it. Not trying to cast a shadow on things but a member on here lost a beautiful SS454 to a house fire and while not my Monte I just had a brand new pick up truck totaled that was 100% the other guys fault, nothing I could do. Could have been Monte. Just saying sometimes the cars go away, you may as well ENJOY it every day you have it and worry about what it is "worth" on the day you are getting a check for it. Just my opinion, I could be wrong! :coffee2:

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I have a 70 402 4 speed car. The original 402 is long gone (my bad!) with a 454 in it now. I also had a real 71 SS454 Monte for several years back in the mid 70's. I have to say the 4 speed car is way more fun. This is just my opinion but these are not hand crafted museum pieces. They were assembly line produced cars made to be driven. Properly store your factory pieces, convert it to a 4speed or a 5 speed using correct parts and drive the snot out of it. Not trying to cast a shadow on things but a member on here lost a beautiful SS454 to a house fire and while not my Monte I just had a brand new pick up truck totaled that was 100% the other guys fault, nothing I could do. Could have been Monte. Just saying sometimes the cars go away, you may as well ENJOY it every day you have it and worry about what it is "worth" on the day you are getting a check for it. Just my opinion, I could be wrong! :coffee2:

 

Amen - beautifully said, Rich! (Not meant to twist Joe's arm - I've already shared my 2 cents worth...)

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You guys make a great point. Life is very short even shorter if bad health. We should make the most of our time here and enjoy what we have. Thanks guys for your thoughts it has reinforce what I was thinking

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