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Calling all engine gurus!


Heckeng

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Ok, puzzle of the day. . .

 

I'm helping a friend with a 68 Torino GT. Please, hold off on the ford jokes. I've already thought them all in my head, but I feel so bad for this guy I don't want this guy to get more depressed about it than he is already. He bought the car 6 years ago and it had a worn out 302 in it. We found a 390 core and he had it rebuilt. During that time, his wife came down with Leukemia, so progress has been slow due to time and funds but we have been trying to get it up and running when we can. We put the rebuilt 390 in, he added super comp headers, a weiand dual plane, holley 750 vac secondary, a comp xe274 cam, and new adjustable crane shaft rocker system to go on some new Edelbrock RPM heads. The problem is that the engine gets hot, and fast. He's driven the car some, but not very much as we've been battling this problem for the entire time. He has also just added an edelbrock aluminum victor water pump, milodon high flow 180 degree ballanced sleeve thermostat, and just to be sure, he replaced his new copper/brass radiator with a new nice aluminum radiator. He also has a 2500 cfm Derale electric fan on it. We got it running again today and it still runs hot!

 

I checked the timing, and it is 18/35 degrees at idle/full in respectively. The fan pulls TONS of hot air off the radiator but can only get about a 20 degree drop across the radiator. The engine was idling ok today at around 193 or so, but once driving, it heated up quickly.

 

It also seems like the engine gets up to temp very fast, especially when compared to any chevy engine I've played with. I would bet that it is up to 180 degrees within 2 minutes of idling.

 

So, I'm trying to brainstorm items that could be causing this overheating. Anybody got any ideas?

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Try a colder thermostat, it may be flowing too much and not letting the water hang out in the radiator long enough.. What does it top out for temp? My big block runs at 193 all day long..

 

Ian

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You might have a pocket in the cooling system. One time while working on a friends car(a Ford...go figure) this happened to us. Checked everything, all the parts checked out. When all else failed,we drained the block and radiator, and filled her back up very slowly and it did the trick. I don't know of a better way to drain the cooling system. I'm sure there is a better way of making sure you don't have a "Hot Pocket". laugh (Hmmm... Hot Pockets...)

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i've had that problem before.. but not to that extreme.. temp would slowly climb up to 220.. then crash back down to about 160.. and then do it all over again.. did that over and over no matter how much I drove it.. I drained the system again for some other reason, refilled it, and it never did it again *shrug*

 

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I saw a problem like that one time on a FE ford I think it was a 352 one of the head gaskets was installed backwards. Got hot very quick.

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Guest 71SSMC

Ford has many different head gaskets for those engines 352/390/428 the gaskets must have the proper water jacket holes in them. It's lots of work but it sounds like this my be the problem.

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I've had the head gasket problem on the Furds also. We had one that only one small hole was not there, and it would do the same thing that you are experiencing. I know it's not the news you wanted, but it's a Furd thing!

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FE engines are notorious about having head gaskets installed backwards etc. When he had his iron heads, we though that might be the problem so we took them off and replaced them. They were on right then, but I've never considered that they could have potentially not had a hole in the right spot. He has an extra gasket and his oldheads laying around, maybe I'll check that out.

 

Actually though, if it was a gasket, wouldn't the coolant take longer to heat up because it couldn't get the heat out of the head? His coolant heats up very quickly too which would lead me to think that he is getting very good heat transfer from the engine. I don't know.

 

Allan, I kind of like your 195 stat idea. we might have to try to find one of those and stick in there to see.

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oops Alan is right I had it backwards frown It is a higher temp thermostat you would want to try, not a colder one.

 

Ian

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What I am really thinking/wondering, is if an engine can be put together too tightly and have too much friction but not spin any bearings or crack rings etc. It doesn't really seem like a cooling system fault simply because it seems like this engine produces so much more heat than normal.

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Hey Allen, thanks for your input! I really appreciate it.

 

One more question. . . My friend splurged on the headers for his car which are a major pain in the butt, actually any headers or manifolds are a pain because they are simply hard to bolt up, and in his case he had to convert to manual steering to allow the headers to work. My question is this--Do headers have any potential to cause higher engine temps? I can go both ways on this one, thinking that the headers flow much better than the manifolds so they will allow the exhaust to exit the engine easier, but they probably also radiate more heat into the engine compartment. Do you think this could be a substantial cause?

 

Allen, We also tested running at 11/28 degrees and it ran hot there too. Many people and places on the net claim that timing can cause overheating, but nobody seems to state if it is timing that is too high, or too low that is the issue. Or do they both?

 

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One more thought, could it be running very lean? When we fired up mine with the new fuel injection the initial fuel curve was way lean and it had the headers glowing and the temps shot up...

 

Ian

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One more thought, could it be running very lean? When we fired up mine with the new fuel injection the initial fuel curve was way lean and it had the headers glowing and the temps shot up...

 

Ian

 

Good thought Ian, but I believe we've ruled that out too, but it may be worth me swapping carbs to check anyway.

 

A little more history. He had the engine built in St. Louis, but it didn't seem right, low oil pressure, so we took the engine out, and brought it to a local (Columbia MO) engine builder and the original builder didn't plug an oil supply hole, so the lifters were not getting good oil. The guy fixed that, and that is when we put on the new heads and cam too. My buddy went ahead and had it dyno'd and they checked the air/fuel ratio as well. We didn't run the engine long enough to see if it would heat up abnormally unfortunately, and his cooling system is an open system pulling cool water from a large trough anyway, so it would be hard to tell. It did pull 400hp/365lbft. That's ok for an FE!

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Guest 71SSMC

The temp sending unit is in the head, If it is a gasket problem the heads are getting hot quick because of poor coolant flow all that combustion and exhaust flow equals heat.

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temp sensor is in the intake, and we tried multiple gauges/sensors as well as a digital temp sensor in the radiator. . . .

 

Keep 'em coming guys, I know this has got to be a simple issue that we're overthinking!

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If it is heating up as quick as you say I think its a cooling issue.How does the water look flowing in the radiator?It might need to be slowed down to cool better so I dought a Hotter Thermo will do anything other than make it run hotter since it will be closed longer before opening... the water needs to be slowed down if it is running too fast through the rad.

 

I know some motors used to use restrictors in the Intake gaskets to slow the water down so not sure if this is the case with you guys.Another thing is if the intake water neck is higher with the aftermarket intake it wont get enough water in the motor... Just a few ideas to keep you thinking

 

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Is it possible that you have combustion gasses leaking into the coolant passages? I hate to suggest anything drastic, but really....is it possible?

 

I have seen leaking head gaskets or cracked heads that will let the high pressure combustion gasses escape into the cooling system, and yet they don't suck water out. I guess I'm trying to describe a one-way leak. I can tell you that it doesn't take much combustion gas to heat water quickly, and there aren't always bubbles and obvious signs when you look into the radiator.

 

The auto parts store should have a "block checker"...or maybe the local mechanic can do it for you, but it is a test kit that you place over the open radiator filler while the engine runs and it "sniffs" the air inside the upper portion of the radiator. If there is any exhaust gasses present, the tester fluid will change color. It is a Quick, simple teast that requires no dissassembly (except removing the radiator cap). The only trick to the testing process is that it's important not to suck any water into the tester or you will ruin the test fluid and have to refill it. No big deal.

 

It might be worth looking in to; just so that question is gone from your head....Hmmm....I wooonder..

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