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#21 mc71454

mc71454

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 10:02 PM

Man, that is an excellent time for that heavy a car, with those gears etc!!! eek Any power adders? Can you give us a quick rundown of your combo? If there was a smiley on her for Holy @#$% that's awesome, I'd put it here!

Thanks...no power adders, but thanks !!

Merlin II block 4.500 bore, 4.25 stroke (540")
Home Built not a crate motor
AFR Fully CNC'd 335 CC Heads, 110 CC Chamber
10.8:1
Solid Roller 252/260 & .680/.680 lift with a 112 lobe separation installed at 107
Victor JR Intake
GM HEI 35 degrees total timing
Pro-Systems 1000 CFM Holley HP Carb
1/2" 4-hole spacer
Hooker 2" primary tube Competition Headers ($140)
3" Torque Tech/Dynomax mufflers through tailpipes and SS tips
Chevy 12-bolt with Mark Williams axles C-clip eliminators
Powertrax Lock Right Locker
3.73 gears
Dick Miller no-hop bars and upper and lower control arms. QA-1 Rear Shocks, stock coil springs and air bags
Dynamic Transmissions - Pro-Mod TH400
Forward Manual Valve Body
Trans Specialties 9" Converter 4400 Flash RPM
Front Springs - 6 Cylinder Malibu and KYB Gas shocks.
Dennys Driveshaft with 1350 joints
Weld Prostars with Hoosier QT Pro in the rear 28/13.50/15 (just fit) and Cooper steel belted radials in the front 205/70/15.
6 point cage
All steel except for hinge type cowl hood and front bumper.
Aluminum Radiator with dual 12" Fans
Mallory Comp 140 Fuel Pump

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods

#22 Guest__*

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 09:12 AM

Hmmm cool , pump gas streetable gears moderate stall and single plane thats fast and pulling good 60ft times eek !!!!!!!!!! Here's the proof, it works when properly tuned and set up wink . LOL
Just pokin' some fun guys. Ask mc71454 how it runs and drives on the street. laugh
Don lol

#23 mc71454

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 09:05 PM

Thanks Don

For those who may be interested...

I've been at it a few years just picking away at ET. The key is to not just throw parts at a car and to learn by taking whatever combination you have whether it runs 15's or 10's and maximize that combination. Then move into the next level you are comfortable.

A plan that is patient keeps it fun, but the most important thing is the knowledge you gain and the great people you meet along the way.

When you fine tune a combination over 2 years you learn first hand how all the parts work together and how they compliment each other...I cannot stress this enough to people just getting into performance street vehicles...especially those who seek to do it normally aspirated.

Here is/was how my 10 year plan has evolved only looking ahead about 2 years at the most.

Step 1 - 8 years ago I started with a 12.99 goal with 3.55's and mild 454 motor...hit 12.65

Step 2 - 5 years ago, 468 motor - solid roller 3.55's - Goal was 11.50's - hit 11.36

Step 3 - 3 years ago - 3.42's, 540" motor, 10:1 Canfield out of the box heads - Goal was 10.50's - Hit 10.65's

Step 4 - 2006 - Professionally Worked AFR heads, Custom 1025+ CFM Modified HP1000, 3.73 gears (getting crazy now laugh ) - Goal 10.20's, 130 mph - Almost there...

2007 - removing, hiding, modifying everything that hints it is a low 10 sec car. New Paint and trim. Car is original paint still. More fine tuning - Goal 10.1x's

Step 5 - 2008 - 4.10 gears in a Strange S-60 (Dana 60 Rear) I am at the limit of the 12-bolt with the weight of the car
Still NO power adders, new cam (already have it designed ) 8" converter with the same 4400 Stall)Fully CNC'd Intake to match heads, Hooker Super Comp headers with ceramic coat 2 1/8 primary. --

Goal 9.90 at 133 mph. Car will still be just as streetable and run 92 octane with no race gas.

Sorry for the blabber just thought I would share how I set realistic goals and tuned and tuned until I reached them. Don't just throw parts at the cars to go fast (except Nitrous works pretty well I have seen)

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods

#24 Guest__*

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 05:54 AM

mc71454, nice post, you pointed out an important fact here some guys overlook, each engine is different and all require tweaking to work best. I have been pointing guys toward combos similar to yours for a while. Some get it right off and some struggle to make it work. I give'um a starting setup and assume they will take it from there. My mistake maybe I should explain each time that this where to start.
I build these deals for a living so maybe the tuning process I take for granted. I have some killer cam profiles I've designed for these pump gas deals as well as full on hi comp stuff. Did you pick your lobes or did you get a rec from a grinder? E-mail me,if you would like, what you are looking at and I'll see how it compares to my files on similar combo's I've done and dyno'ed. If you do also send me the rod length and whose crank and pistons, so i can have an idea of the rotating mass.
Don

#25 mc71454

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 08:29 PM

Don,

I'll get some info together and send the cam specs. I am on vacation in Maine until Monday night...Will send a day after I get home

6.385 Rod
Callies Dragonslayer Crank
SRP Forged Aluminum with 10cc Dome

Approximate Cam - 295/305, 266/271 @ .050, .765/.745 lift on a 112 LSA, installed at 107

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods

#26 monte0

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 02:09 PM

Sorry to hijack the thread, but best with my monte is 12.5 @ 109.
What should be next on the list to add some more power besides supercharging and nitrous since I was to keep all motor?

My combo list is 454 gen.6 full roller BB., 9.5/1 compression, speed pro. rings, balanced and blue printed, 502 GM aluminum heads, demon 750 double pumper, msd 6AL, msd wires, msd distributor, 120 gph mechanical fuel pump, still has the stock 510 - 540 lift cam the motor was made with, turbo 400 w/ 2000 stall, ford 9" rear w/ 350 gears and a detroit locker, and when I ran my run it was on my S-rated street tires. Slicks is a given but what else would really help? Cam time?
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

57ff296a-28e6-4b1e-ba72-117c2bd891df_zps

#27 Guest__*

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 02:49 PM

That cam was designed for street use and is not optimal for drag racing. Not even a decent street strip deal. The carb is a little small for a 454 to make decent HP. What you have is a low RPM torque engine. There are not alot of good off the shelf cams for the gen 6 yet. I'll do some digging and see if I can come up with something.The 2000 converter isn't helping either, A 22/2400 would be much better!
Don

#28 monte0

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 02:55 PM

Ihad a 2400 stall but with the weight of the car it was acting like a 2800-2900 and was smoking my cluches even with my huge coolerand build in cooler in my aluminum ratiator..carb.is small I know.
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

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#29 Guest__*

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:08 PM

Sounds like you need a better brand of converter. Any way I found some lobes from comp but it would be a cust grind. Specs as follows, 284/290 adv, 224/230 at .050, .566/.578 lift at the valve. This will be a hyd roller so you cna reuse your lifters. The part# is 01-000-8 the grind # is 3110/3112-HR-10 install with Intake centerline at 106 deg. This with a 800/850 vac sec carb should wake it up once tuned in. A set of roller rockers would help also, full roller not the junk roller tip deals!
Don

#30 monte0

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:15 PM

oo, I didnt play when I went full roller...I've got Pro magnium full rollers(the rebuildable type smile

What kinda idle would I exspect with that grind? I dont want too go too choppy wink want to keep the sleeper look and sound going,lol. You should hear my car go down the track with the full exhast on, it spins 2nd and chirps 3rd at 90mph and you usally cant hear my car over the other guys car.
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

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#31 mc71454

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:32 PM

I have to take my son to football camp in a few minutes but will check out your combo tonight and see what you can do for the cheap. I have a some tricks and tuning tips to share.

Tom

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods

#32 Guest__*

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:37 PM

It would work with a stock converter if tuned properly, Maybe a barely noticable idle, but much more aggressive than the GM stick. more power and better response, better acceration.
Don

#33 monte0

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:38 PM

cool, sounds good guys..thanks
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

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#34 502ci

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:41 PM

monte0...

What exhaust are you running to make it so quiet?

Bill
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#35 monte0

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 06:24 PM

A full flowmaster 2.5" exhast with delta flow 40 series mufflers, crossover pipe and 3" hooker headers with 2" primarys
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

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#36 mc71454

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 08:22 PM

Sorry to hijack the thread, but best with my monte is 12.5 @ 109.
What should be next on the list to add some more power besides supercharging and nitrous since I was to keep all motor?

My combo list is 454 gen.6 full roller BB., 9.5/1 compression, speed pro. rings, balanced and blue printed, 502 GM aluminum heads, demon 750 double pumper, msd 6AL, msd wires, msd distributor, 120 gph mechanical fuel pump, still has the stock 510 - 540 lift cam the motor was made with, turbo 400 w/ 2000 stall, ford 9" rear w/ 350 gears and a detroit locker, and when I ran my run it was on my S-rated street tires. Slicks is a given but what else would really help? Cam time?

Ok, so your ET and mph do not match right on, I will say you are leaving 0.3 in ET on the table and .5 to 1 mph, your mph normally aspirated indicates a 12.20 to low 12.30 ET.

Adding something now to add power will not achieve anything as you have not optimized your current setup with the parts you have. You have answered your own question with the slicks or DOT slicks. Once you have those you will be able to tune your 60 ft.

What you need to do is Tune your 60 FT. and the 60 ft Only. When you tune your 60 ft the ET will take care of itself.

Hopefully this can be a quote of the week..

New Ignition System - $600
Roller Cam Setup - $1200
9" Rear - $2300

..........Tuning your 60 foot - PRICELESS

All joking aside - you have an excellent combination there...

....But you will need the tires to do any 60 foot tuning which will include the accelerator pump and timing adjustments and the shock nut trick.

If you like to plan ahead...here it is.

A 3600 9" converter will be the next ticket to test your traction..and pick you up 0.15 to 0.2 in ET.

Next, After that I am pretty sure your suspension will be the limiting factor..

This info is tried and true and NOT based on any magazines or hearsay and Will Work without throwing parts at the car.

CAM Timing - I did extensive testing last year with Cam Timing from 5* retarded to straight up to 7* advanced. I have one of those Cloyes Hex-adjusts so it was pretty easy to change. The result was no noticeable difference in ET, only a possible mph increase from 5 advanced to 5 retarded BUT my data did convince me enough to report it as fact. Bottom Line - set it up as per the manufacturers recommendation around 3 to 5 advanced and leave it at that.

Hope this is helpful..

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods




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