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Katman

Power window wiring question

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I've wired up the power windows but they are not working.  I've already tested each window motor previously.  I'm getting power to the relay behind the kick panel driver's side.  Should I see power on any of the two other pins besides the orange wire?  I'm thinking maybe that relay is bad.  The wiring from the voltage regulator through the firewall is all in place.  They have said my battery is testing bad but they did charge it and power locks works, so does the 8track.

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Sounds like power is not coming out of the relay.  Check to make sure the relay is wired correctly. Also, the relay should be energized only when the key is on. That will allow power to leave the relay. Try bypassing the relay to see if all power windows work then.

Good luck!!

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Yes, try running the motor installed straight from the battery and see if it works then move further from there to find the point when it quits working. I had a rebuilt motor that worked on the bench but did not have enough power to overcome the tension of the window regulator. I got a new motor and now works fine.

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I've pretested all of the motors.  how do I bypass the relay?  there are 3 wires.  I'd connect the orange to ? in order to bypass.  If I recall one of the two remaining wires is pink.  is the third wire a ground?  Or does this third wire have something to do with flipping the power and ground to the motor to reverse direction?

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There should be a red & white 14 gauge wire from the relay to the drivers door switch block. This is the main power feed.

The relay is energized anytime the key is in the on position. This sends power from the main power source to the window switch.

The relay gets it's ground (for it's coil)  by being bolted in place in the door hinge cowl, it has no separate ground wire. It won't pull in if you have it just hanging in the air.

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Mark, what are you connecting the main feed wire, the 12 gauge orange & black wire to?

These old power windows ran notoriously slow because of the wire lengths and gauge. If I were installing power windows, I'd replace every single wire with 10 gauge.

Here's the wiring schematic for this system.

W - Chevelle El Camino Monte Carlo 1970-72 Power Window Circuit.pdf

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I've replaced all of the interior wiring with new harnesses from M&H.  Windows worked before I started this project.  orange/Black is connected to the power feed from the voltage regulator through the firewall connector can receive three interior inputs.  right now two of them are connected.  The relay is hanging in the air right now.  That may be the issue?  I'll bolt it back down and recheck.  If I were to want to bypass to test the windows, which two wires would I connect together at that relay harness connector?

 

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yeah I grounded the relay still no go.  I'm wondering if a weak battery could make that relay not work?  It's an old battery and when I went to start the car, found it nearly dead.  Took it to Auto Zone for a charge and they said it tested bad.  The radio and other things work (locks, etc...) but not the windows.  I did order a new battery which should come in a few days.  Could that be the reason?  I did use that battery to test each window as I put the new glass in and they all worked wired directly from the motor to the battery.

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Is the thin pink wire from the relay plugged into the IGN terminal in the fuse block?

When you turn the key to on, you should hear or feel the relay click.

You can pull the relay to test it. Power to where the pink wire went, ground the relay metal itself. Click?

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The only connector at the relay is a three pin connector from the power window harness.  One of those three wires is pink.  It sounds like maybe a single pink wire should also go to that relay if I understand correctly what you are saying.?

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Mark,

I hope the photos below are useful.

1st photo: The 3-wire connector plugged onto the relay (Orange/Black = 12V into relay from power source; Red/White = 12V out of relay to regulators; Pink = relay trigger wire from IGN port on fuse panel)

2nd photo: Orange/Black wire is connected to the power source (mine is a 30 A-fused port on an auxiliary fuse block fed direct from the battery).

3rd photo: Pink wire is plugged into the IGN port on the main fuse panel.  This triggers the relay only when the key is turned on.  You should be able to find this pink wire coming out of your new wire harness somewhere near your main fuse panel.  If you don't have the pink wire plugged into your IGN port, the system will not work because the regulators cannot get power from the unpicked relay.

To bypass the relay (for testing only), I would unplug the 3-wire connector from the relay and insert a 10 gauge jumper wire into that connector between the Orange/Black wire (be sure it is NOT connected to a power source yet) and the Red/White wire.  Now find the other end of the Orange/Black wire in your harness and connect it to a good 12V power source.  You should now be able to operate any of the window regulators with their respective switches.  By jumpering the power IN (O/B) and power OUT (R/W) wires, you are effectively bypassing the relay which would normally make this same connection when the ignition is ON (IF the relay is operating correctly).  Good luck.

 

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Thanks.  I do have a pink wire that is hanging in the breeze.  My fuse box is different than yours.  I'll post a couple of pictures.

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I think that pink wire is the one you are talking about.    If so it doesn't have the right type of connector to plug directly into the IGN on the fuse panel.

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Yes, the thin pink wire goes to the IGN terminal. It tells the relay to close which sends power to the window switch.

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Mark, 

Let's be sure we're dealing with the correct pink wire.  Have you done a continuity test on the loose pink wire shown and the pink wire in the window relay connector? If there is not continuity, you need to trace the pink wire coming from the relay connector back to it's other end, wherever it is in the harness.

Assuming that is the correct pink wire, the connector shown is exactly like the one used for the factory power window relay on my '70 SS (see photo below) so it is not "wrong", it just plugs into the factory harness with that connector and gets the IGN signal through a different circuit (possibly from a splitter that serves other power options as well).

When I installed factory power windows in my low-option '70 402 (with minimum wire harness), there was no connection in that original harness for the pink wire so I crimped a female spade connector on the end and went directly into the IGN port.

Since the connector you have probably won't plug directly into your fuse box, I suggest using a test lead to temporarily connect it to the IGN male spade connector in the fuse box and see if your windows will operate after you turn the ignition on.  If that works, then you could replace the "factory" connector on the loose pink wire with a female spade connector and hook it up that way.  Alternatively, I would look for another loose pink wire in your new harness that has a mating connector to the one you have already found. 

Sorry if this is confusing, but you need to get the pink relay trigger wire connected to you IGN port one way or another since it is a major security exposure to have your power windows operational without the key in the ignition and the ignition "ON".

PS  The pink wire and connector is seen in the upper left section of the photo below.  Ignore that white thing in the corner - near as I can tell that is the corner of a dryer fabric softner sheet that I placed under the dash to keep rodents out.

 

 

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I looked at the old drivers side power window harness and there was a bridge wire from that harness to the rear window defogger harness before it went into the IGN terminal on the fuse box.  I pulled that connector and put it on my new hardness and my windows are now working.  Thanks a lot for the assistance you guys provided!

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Congratulations, Mark!  Enjoy the power windows! 👍

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Consider this.....Without debating wire colours, but assuming the pink/wite is, in fact, "Ignition on, switched power" to the window switches...remove the O.E. relay and install a 30 Amp circuit breaker (C.B.). Supply power to the C.B.  from a "Hot at all times/battery power source". Consider protecting it with a 40 Amp fuse.  Doing this eliminates the need to have the ignition key in your possession AND in the ignition AND in the "ACC" or "On" position. Notes: 1) the PW circuit wires (except the "ignition on" wire) should be 10 Ga. Any thing smaller is asking for problems. Maybe not next week but in several years as they age.  2) check ALL wires that pass thru the door...they will likely break there at some point. 3) old, original 4-pin (drivers door) switch will likely become "touchy" during operation of the driver's window. It is used more than all the other windows, and will likely fail due to electronic arcing, as power is send to the 50 year old PW motor (Like the #@$% 3rd speed of the heater fan on a 50 year old AC car!!!!)  4) if you don't have one, get a FACTORY G.M./Chevy service manual, a probe light that indicates power and a "good quality" Digital Volt Meter {DVM} {If you get the $6.00 red colour units from Harbour Freight, get two.....so you can check that the 1st one is working. And, a couple of test wires w/ alligator clips.   Also suggest you photo copy the factory wire diagrams (to 11 x 17 size), that way you can mark on them (PENCIL) with changes, fixes, and modifications. I'm up to 30 or so "wiring drawings" on my Monte.   Don't panic, piece o' cake!  good luck.

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Point taken.  This is an SS which I am trying to keep as original as possible.  All harnesses are new and will most likely out live me.  I'm good with the way they did this 50 years ago.  If it wasn't an SS there would have be A LOT of modifications.

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