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454 or 467?


1Bad454

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Hey guys a quick background on my car. I have 71SS that came with a 76 block which had some issues so I sold it. I am planning my engine build and am looking at purchasing a new GM Gen VI block. I'm looking to make around 600-650 street HP with aluminum heads. My question is do you guys think I can make those numbers with the stock 4.250 bore? Or would it be best to bore out .060 to a 467 to get those numbers? 

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What Tom said if you're stuck on HP numbers.

If you're not stuck on numbers and just want a great running street engine, I'm running a 460 BBC with a Straub Technologies HR cam, iron heads and an RPM intake. Nothing special but the best running, funnest engine I've ever put together. I'm cranking about 525 hp, 15 mpg with a 4-spd, 3.73 gears and no overdrive. It drives like gramma's car till you hit the gas. I could drive it cross country if I chose to. It surprises EVERYONE for what it is. Chris Straub says if I were to swap a set of properly set up Brodix aluminum heads, I would likely be seeing 575 hp with no detrimental affects on streetablilty (well, probably a ding on mpg, but you gotta feed the horses).

I've learned that often times people chase a horsepower number. Their neighbor has 600 hp so they need 650, my friend has 650 so I need 700. Then their car sits because they over built it and it's no fun to drive, but they have bragging rights I guess. If you don't enjoy driving it, you won't drive it.

All this to say call Chris at Straub Technologies, or Mike Jones at Lewis Racing Engines (closer to you). Be honest with yourself and what you really want to do with the car, then relay that to Chris or Mike. Neither will try to sell you what you don't need and you'll get much better results than mail order parts assembly.

Who knows, with a 496 and Chris or Mikes help, you're likely to see the numbers you want AND it will be street friendly, reliable and fun to drive!

Let us know what you decide.

Scott

 

 

 

 

 

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Holy crap Ron, you're way ahead of me. Most people don't know VortecPro.

I thought you were building an engine not buying one or I would have mentioned Mark.

That set up is similar to mine but I certainly don't have the VortecPro touch.  That thing will be everything you want and more.

I've always told myself the my next engine will be from him.

I'm curious what Mark thinks of aluminum heads on that engine as he seems to be the master of the 781/049 cast irons.

Keep us posted please.

Scott

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2 hours ago, Its Just Me said:

Holy crap Ron, you're way ahead of me. Most people don't know VortecPro.

I thought you were building an engine not buying one or I would have mentioned Mark.

That set up is similar to mine but I certainly don't have the VortecPro touch.  That thing will be everything you want and more.

I've always told myself the my next engine will be from him.

I'm curious what Mark thinks of aluminum heads on that engine as he seems to be the master of the 781/049 cast irons.

Keep us posted please.

Scott

Yes sir! I really want that motor. I may give him a call and ask about going with aluminum heads and see what he says. It seems like he pays careful attention to many critical details such as oiling efficiency, rotating mass, balancing and head efficiency. I was thinking of having one built locally with similar specs. I'm just kicking ideas around right now. If I don't buy that motor I'm looking at a new Chevrolet Performance GenVI block w/ windage tray, Brodix Race-Rite oval port heads (CNC ported), Eagle lightweight 4340 forged steel crank, Eagle H beam rods (lighter weight and better rotating efficiency), forged pistons 9.6-10:1 (maybe SRP), Total Seal rings, Lunati Voodoo cam 231/239 duration  .600/.600 lift.     

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Oh, that's VortecPro?

I have one of his engines and I must be the only one who isn't impressed. I had an engine I built myself that ran nice, but it broke a ring and I opted to start new with an engine from Vortec.

I upgraded and had him put in the mahle pistons, and an isky roller cam,  and the result is with the new engine the car is a full second + slower in the quarter mile while also losing 5 mpg. Its pretty bad when you go from a low 13 second time (and hoping for 12's) and you land in the mid 14 second area. 

My original engine was a 468 with domed pistons and merlin oval port heads, and this replacement has probably got flat top mahle pistons and he chose to top it off with ported peanut port heads.

There is a huge change in port size from the performer rpm manifold he fitted it with, to the smaller port size of the peanut port head. The poor engine runs well and feels torquey enough, but it looses steam and flattens out at about 4500 rpm. It feels powerful (because its big) but does not feel healthy, and is far from feeling brutal.

Another issue I had with Vortec was the lack of an invoice...I have no idea what parts went into my engine except what was mentioned in a couple of brief phone conversations. All I got was a bill and a receipt. I had him supply everything...carburetor, dist, everything...so I knew the dyno numbers were for the engine setup I was actually getting. I think the dyno sheet was wrong, I don't feel like I have 500+ hp or 600 ftlbs.

I saw the video you posted, got excited and thought "hey maybe these guys can fix my engine"... but now I find it's the guys that built my engine. Grrr

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You might want to check with Scott Shafiroff. 

Shafiroff racing engines, located in Bohemia New York. 1-800-295-7142 

We went with the naturally aspirated 434 small block. 763hp @7200,  630 lbs. tq @ 5900 rpm.  

The bottom end is guaranteed to handle an additional 2 stage 500 hp nitrous setup, ...if it's big numbers you want!!!

The guys at Shafiroff are really great to work with, they can design any type of engine for whatever your wants may be. And they stand behind every engine they build. 

To keep it numbers matching, they can use your block if you wish to. 

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Thank you for your input gentlemen. And sorry to hear about your experience with Vortec Pro Mark.. That really sucks. For my build I am looking for 600-650 drivable HP with a Holley Sniper. With today's technology I know that it's possible with a BBC and modern heads. The engine just needs to be engineered. 

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A mild roller 496 sounds like what you need. 

My 71 is a 512 block, .060 0ver. Bore is 4.31 stroke is 4.25. Rods are 6.385. 

I put a small hydraulic roller and a set of iron Merlins and she runs 11.80 all day for the last ten years. 

Point is the 496 stuff costs about the same as the 454 stuff, so why not? I shift my gal at 5500 and she just does her thing. 

And the Sniper is probably the best upgrade you can do. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/7/2020 at 6:20 PM, Its Just Me said:

Holy crap Ron, you're way ahead of me. Most people don't know VortecPro.

I thought you were building an engine not buying one or I would have mentioned Mark.

That set up is similar to mine but I certainly don't have the VortecPro touch.  That thing will be everything you want and more.

I've always told myself the my next engine will be from him.

I'm curious what Mark thinks of aluminum heads on that engine as he seems to be the master of the 781/049 cast irons.

Keep us posted please.

Scott

I called Mark today and asked him several questions. He seems like a really nice guy. I told him that I would like to run my stock 3:31 rear end gearing and he said that it would be perfect for this engine configuration. He said that this engine has so much torque that he wouldn't recommend anymore gearing. I also asked about going with aluminum heads such as Edelbrock for this engine configuration. Believe it or not he actually said that the cast iron heads with the work that he does to them make more HP. Pretty interesting stuff.  

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13 hours ago, MC1of80 said:

What cubic inch? With my 496 and 3.31 gear I have way too much torque. Fries the tires at will in any gear. Lolol

Good luck! 

I'm looking at the 467. I am hoping to fry my tiers too! LOL

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You certainly will!

We have a friend who just installed a 460- .030 454 built by vortecpro. He installed it into a 72 Monte Carlo with a 3:42 and th400 a few months ago. He loves it! 

In our opinion, mark builds a nice engine package. 

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43 minutes ago, Michael Boyte said:

Been looking at the Shafiroff 632 pro series 9 degree myself, 1295 HP  @ 7500 rpm.   

They have a pump gas version that produces 945hp 6300rpm

This one is pump gas 815hp. Complete with a 4500 Sniper and install kit. it was $14349 shipped. Hope to see it Weds.

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