jcakes Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Now that I've got my car back, I'd like to hear her run again. It's been 20 years since this motor has run though. Other than a little fuel stabilizer (20 years ago), this car was parked in a garage in running condition and then left to sit. I'm working with a 327. Block #3858180, heads #3872461 (early 60's vintage camel-humps), Edelbrock electric choke 600cfm (P/N 1406). As far as I know, all of the internals are original (but ran great before she was parked). I haven't done anything yet but research. Here's what I think I'm supposed to do. Bar the engine over. I did this a few degrees just to see if it moved (and it did), but I haven't gone a full rotation yet to check for binding. Refresh the carb. The kit from Edelbrock was inexpensive, so I'm throwing P/N 1477 at it. Remove old spark plugs Give each cylinder a few mls of Marvel Mystery Oil New spark plugs Cap and rotor Change the oil Drain and swap out the coolant Replace thermostat Replace spark plug wires Prime the oil pump Replace the battery Have a charged fire extinguisher handy Let 'er rip? A few preliminary questions: How does this look for an order of operations? What would you add or subtract? How do I best get fuel to the carb without doing the inevitable fuel system rebuild now? Can I just run a line into a fuel can from the mechanical fuel pump? I'd like to get it up to operating temperature as well as long as it all sounds good. Should I disconnect the electric choke on the carb and how? Is it just a matter of removing the electric connection? I don't want to be turning too high of an RPM at first start, and I'm afraid that if the choke is in fact fully operational after 20 years, it's going to try and run the RPMs up. This is what I have so far, and I'm nearing paralysis from analysis. What have you done in the past that did or didn't work? What would you change? What am I overlooking? Thank you all again in advance for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I would think about looking close at all of the belts and hoses. That would include the two radiator hoses and heater line hoses. Inspect your vacuum lines for dry-rot. If you are going to rebuild the carb, while he carb is off turn the engine over with the fuel line in a container let the engine fuel pump pump some of the gas into the container and check for debris in the fuel before maybe pumping possible sludge and dirt into the fresh built carb. For safety reasons you could disconnect the coil wire so no spark is being generated that could ignite the gas fumes and spreading into the container of gas you are pumping into it. Since you are planning new parts in the distributor which will more than likely change the timing, be sure you have an air cleaner installed to prevent a possible backfire through the carb causing a possible fire. One of our members lost her beautiful triple black 71 SS454 when her husband was working on another car parked next to her SS454 and caused a fire that took both of the cars, their garage and part of their house). Some of this may be overkill, I will leave it up to you. rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbolt Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I think i would check the gas in the tank and replace the gas with fresh and flush the gas tank as well. All the prep work in the world wont be helpful if the gas in your fuel tank is 20 years old and mostly varnish. Otherwise the list looks pretty thorough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 If you can't clean/verify the fuel tank contents first, the external gas can with a hose would work. As always, be mindful of fire, don't do it near a space heater or furnace. Keep in mind the fumes stay low, so it could present a fire hazard, even though you don't smell it up high. If the motor sat that long, the valve springs may have taken a set, and the valve seals may be a little hard. Possible the seals may need replaced down the road if she's a smoker. No big deal. I wouldn't be too worried about the electric choke personally, especially if you're going to pre-lube the oil pump. Revving it up may splash a little more oil on the camshaft anyways. Maybe consider changing any rubber fuel related hoses too. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
714024SPEED Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Wow I feel like a dope my Catalina sat that long and I checked for oil pressure,fuel,spark and started her up. Lol now that I know she runs I'm doing all the things on the list you have. I think you have a great plan ,good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBMan Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I agree with @cbolt and @jft69z - get that old gas out of the tank and lines and replace with fresh gasoline. Also, you might want to consider pulling the distributor and spinning the oil pump manually for 10 or 15 seconds to make sure you've circulated some of that fresh oil. If the engine has been sitting with an original style oil filter (no anti-drainback valve) then oil has certainly drained from all passages and bearing surfaces. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I felt compelled to answer this yesterday but I deleted my comments 5 different times and gave up and went to bed. In all honesty I would have done what Kevin did. Make sure it runs then go back and do the correct things. I’ve done it numerous times with good results. Old school Chev engines are basically bulletproof. Sorry. That being said I would not recommend it on someone else’s vehicle, only mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 21 hours ago, Rob Peters said: Since you are planning new parts in the distributor which will more than likely change the timing... I'm not a mechanic, so please don't take my question as doubting you, but, if I mark everything and reassemble it so that everything goes back in place just like it came out, that wouldn't effect timing, right? Thank you to everyone who has answered thus far. I really appreciate the hand holding during this. As for the fuel, it seems as though the effort outweighs the cost with the fuel system. My intent is to start it with a secondary fuel source just to establish that she'll run again. Once I've done that, my plan is to just replace the tank and fuel lines and start fresh. Also, this (the initial restart) will all happen outside, with a trusted friend/extinguisher operator and away from my house or other cars. I do appreciate the concern though...sometimes we overlook things in our haste and it's good to be reminded not to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, jcakes said: I'm not a mechanic, so please don't take my question as doubting you, but, if I mark everything and reassemble it so that everything goes back in place just like it came out, that wouldn't effect timing, right? Thank you to everyone who has answered thus far. I really appreciate the hand holding during this. As for the fuel, it seems as though the effort outweighs the cost with the fuel system. My intent is to start it with a secondary fuel source just to establish that she'll run again. Once I've done that, my plan is to just replace the tank and fuel lines and start fresh. Also, this (the initial restart) will all happen outside, with a trusted friend/extinguisher operator and away from my house or other cars. I do appreciate the concern though...sometimes we overlook things in our haste and it's good to be reminded not to do so. John, No, not necessarily. It would still be best to reset the timing. Number one, if you remove the distributor to do any restoration on the inside parts you will need to reset the timing because you will not get it into the exact place. If replacing the points you will not get things right back where they were, it just would not be possible. rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, Rob Peters said: John, No, not necessarily. It would still be best to reset the timing. Number one, if you remove the distributor to do any restoration on the inside parts you will need to reset the timing because you will not get it into the exact place. If replacing the points you will not get things right back where they were, it just would not be possible. rob What if it's an updated HEI/non-points distributor? Is this still a concern with a simple cap and rotor change? Either way, I need a timing light, so now seems like the time to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 If your just changing cap and rotor that’s the same for both distributors. If you start pulling points and or the complete distributor that when you run into timing issues. Obviously they are different styles of caps with different guts. But the basics are the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, jcakes said: What if it's an updated HEI/non-points distributor? Is this still a concern with a simple cap and rotor change? Either way, I need a timing light, so now seems like the time to get it. I am sorry that I added confusion to your posts. I thought you had said you were redoing the distributor but I just looked back and see you only stated you were only replacing the rotor and distributor cap....my bad. Since it has been sitting so long I would suggest you at least "dress" the points surfaces to clean the faces of the points contacts. rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I used to work at a garage that would pull old cars out of the fields and get them going. Don't get too involved at first. Your intentions are good, but the more stuff you mess with, the more questions you will have if it doesn't start. (Hmm, did I do the distributor right, or maybe I messed up the carburetor work...Maybe it was a pre-existing problem...) We used an old bottle that once had gear oil in it (with the nozzle on the cap) and filled it with fresh gas, then squirt some of that fresh gas into the carb vent to fill the float bowl. You don't get as good a result if you put the gas directly into the engine. Nothing left to do but turn the key as someone stands by. Chances are good that it will run for about 20 seconds then die. Add more gas to the float bowl and you get another 30 seconds. It may take off and run on the old fuel you have in the tank, but not always. Some of the things you can expect are a stuck float in the carb, or stuck valves that don't want to close, etc. Have that friend at the ready with a heavy blanket or comforter to smother any flame if it happens. Fire extinguisher is a last resort, as they make a horrible mess. Both should be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy's Auto Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I generally take the idea of a fresh battery, a can of carb spray, and a starter button. If she don't knock, I go deeper. Always disconnect the fuel pump feed line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just curious. How did the restart go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 16 hours ago, Dtret said: Just curious. How did the restart go? Not there yet. All the normal excuses...work, kids, other priorities. I'm still hoping to do this soon though. I'm itching to hear her again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, jcakes said: Not there yet. All the normal excuses...work, kids, other priorities. I'm still hoping to do this soon though. I'm itching to hear her again. Dont you hate it when work and family get in the way of our cars just kidding completely understandable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 1/13/2021 at 1:56 PM, cny first gen 71 said: Dont you hate it when work and family get in the way of our cars just kidding completely understandable I'm back. It's been awhile and a snail's pace slog, but I'm getting there. Since it's been so long and I don't want to blow up the engine on the eventual restart, I'm in the process of priming the oil pump. I'm using and oil pump primer tool and have seen some signs of good results. I'm getting oil pressure and I've got the entire driver side bank to give me oil. I am NOT getting oil from the passenger side, with the exception of the #6 exhaust rocker. I read through the internet a little, and it seems like the offset on the priming tool makes a difference. I double checked it against my distributor, and the offsets look the same. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Not missing anything. Sometimes a lifter is not lined up with the oil passage. You could manually turn the engine a little or just drop the distributor back in and fire it up! Some cases the pushrods could be clogged with sludge. My "Barn find" 71 402 was sitting for 34 years before my son, brother and myself fired her back to life. All we did was change the oil, swap out carbs and fired her up! Been running since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, MC1of80 said: Not missing anything. Sometimes a lifter is not lined up with the oil passage. You could manually turn the engine a little or just drop the distributor back in and fire it up! Some cases the pushrods could be clogged with sludge. My "Barn find" 71 402 was sitting for 34 years before my son, brother and myself fired her back to life. All we did was change the oil, swap out carbs and fired her up! Been running since. OK...this is what I'm learning elsewhere as well. Dropped the distributor back in place and all of my index marks lined up. Replaced some hoses and am going to pull fuel from a remote source like mentioned above and not even bother with the tank or old lines. Now it's just a matter of pulling it out of the garage and bribing a friend or two to come over and hold some fire extinguishers so I can turn her over with a little peace of mind. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 On 1/12/2021 at 9:18 PM, Dtret said: Just curious. How did the restart go? Better than expected! After a 20 year slumber, she fired right back up and sounds like I just parked her yesterday. No knocks, ticks or clunks. A few seconds for the fuel to get through the pump, and it just idled like normal. So stoked. I do, however, have a major coolant leak on the passenger side. It's hard to see because of the starter, but I'm hoping it's just a freeze plug and not a head gasket. The oil is fresh, so I'll check that to see if it's contaminated at all. A preliminary 'feel-around' leads me to believe it was a freeze plug though, and I know I never replaced them. It's still in there, but the majority of the water felt like it was coming from around there and pooling in the plug itself and it didn't seem wet above that. Now I just need to figure out where to go next. Obviously the leak. Thinking I should freshen up the entire fuel system up to the pump. Suspension is absolute garbage and will need to be addressed before she's road worthy again, as well as brakes. LOTS of body work (rust, likely rear end hit from before I got her) and the wires...omg the wires make me insane. I'll need to trace and ID every one if only for my own sanity. And the A/C box. I'm not worried about A/C yet, and the box is in the way. I'd eventually like a clean firewall look, but will keep everything aside for if I change my mind. Thank you all for your help and words of support! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Take your time and be patient,not like me,and it will be fine. Think hard about pulling the a/c it’s something that’s always wanted when you are actually driving it. A little spit and polish and the box isn’t horrible. They designed it so big so it’s acemetrical(?) with the brake booster so the passenger side isn’t bare. I’m just making crap up. But good luck and keep us posted on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 15 hours ago, Dtret said: Take your time and be patient,not like me,and it will be fine. Think hard about pulling the a/c it’s something that’s always wanted when you are actually driving it. A little spit and polish and the box isn’t horrible. They designed it so big so it’s acemetrical(?) with the brake booster so the passenger side isn’t bare. I’m just making crap up. But good luck and keep us posted on your progress. I appreciate your input (and everybody's); it's me putting ideas out there and being able to talk them through and consider options and consequences that I wouldn't otherwise by myself. This car obviously had A/C at one point, but I got it sans compressor, so it was always a 4/60 system for me. I was also 17, so much more resilient (and broker) than I am now. It's not a decision I'd make lightly either way. I remember seeing a brake booster that was capable of being mounted lower on the firewall. This was also a long time ago and something I haven't put a ton of research into, but in my 20-years-ago mind, I wanted to drop the brake booster lower and ditch the A/C box and get that symmetry back that way. With the steering linkage and long tube headers, I'm not sure it's realistic though. Either way, I need to figure out where the coolant is coming from first, and move on from there. It continued to drain last night long after I shut her down. I'm thinking that the thermostat may have been stuck open as I didn't replace it and definitely didn't run it long enough to open it if it was good. It was a decent 50/50 mix too, so I'm hoping the plug just corroded out vs a deep freeze, especially since she was garage kept. Makes me worry about the others now too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I hope you don’t run into the same issue I did. On the pictures the one in my hand was from behind the flexplate. The other was the side of the block. Apparently the previous owner(s) found a buy 1 get 10 free on bottles of bars leak and used em all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcakes Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 Ooofa. No stop leak as far as I know...certainly not by me. Actually, aside from a little rust discoloration, it was pretty decent looking coolant. What are the nicks in the block around the F/O plug holes? I am assuming all of these plugs in mine are steel and possibly even original, since I never replaced them, so that makes them at least 25 years old. And if one is gone, I think I'll feel safer thinking the rest aren't far behind. This whole thing is going to be a slow process, so I'm OK with yanking the engine for a full freshen up, and replacing the freeze out plugs made that decision easier for me to make. I may just prioritize some suspension work while I've got the weight still in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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