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Sorry. But I have a problem with….( this can be a multi topic post)


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The word so often used when rebuilding something. RESTORATION. “The act of bringing something back to it’s original condition. “  Of course I will use vehicles because that’s what we do. It may just be me but I see a difference in a restoration and a rebuild. Although the process is much in the same, the end results are completely different. You end up with a car that the manufacturer built or you end up with a car built the way you want it. I have zero problem with either result. But wouldn’t one be considered a restoration and the other be considered a rebuild?  The term “ restoration “ is too loosely used and accepted. My opinion. Agree or disagree? 

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I agree with you 100%. I think the big problem started when cars became a business. They changed so many terms to meet their goal of a profit. Like the term "Clone " became a "Recreation" everything is a barn find,even though you see it being pulled out of a nice garage attached to someone's house. We do have a tread on here for our Barn find Monte because it sat in a real barn for 34 years and we have the rodent body's and poop to prove it.Every car is a one of one because it has some odd options that mean nothing. 

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Dennis, I fully agree with you.  I look at the term "Restoration" and bringing an item, no matter what that item is, back to the way it was originally built/made.  Build or Rebuild would be a term I would look at as taking an item and building it the way you want it to be.  

Like you, how someone wants to do their build, rebuild or restoration is in their end of the court.  I am more of an "Original" type person.  When I bought my 1929 Model A Ford I wanted everything as close to like it left the factory as possible and I was only 15 years old when I bought it and started my restoration that same weekend.  Many here know that now, 57 years later, I still own that car and to this day I continue to find things I want to change to make it more original.  When I started to look for a FGMC my goal was to find one as near original as possible and keep it that way..

Bottom like for me is Restoration is taking an item back to Original and Build/Rebuild would be to make as your own.  That said, I do have a huge respect of the vision and build people to do to make a car "Theirs" the way they want it.

rob

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I normally do not contribute to threads like this but wanted to chime in this time. To me, you rebuild an engine (or a trans) and you either restore or build a car. I have never heard anyone say they "restored" an engine nor have I heard anyone say they have "rebuilt" a car. They have either built the car or restored it and each has a different meaning. In my mind you can restore a car and rebuild the engine for that car without changing the overall meaning of restoring the car. As a matter of fact if someone tells me their car has been restored it almost goes without saying the engine has also been rebuilt. Clear as mud yet? 

 

Oh, and you can also "build" an engine and/or trans. (with all the goodies) Almost forgot about that context in car guy lingo. 

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I’m ok with changing the wordage but it still drives home the same point. When I did my 88 Monte I put in a gm ZZ4 crate engine, but I rebuilt the entire car in the process. I didn’t build the car, it was already there. 

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Well... I have been involved with customs, restorations and good old fashioned down and dirty clean ups with new chrome and paint... the only term that has bothered me for the last 30 years is the saying “frame off restoration” ... it’s wrong... everyone uses it.. is a unibody car worth less than a framed car because it does not have this opportunity? Isn’t “frame out from Under” more correct? I give up. 

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When I first saw Dennis's post I was like "did he not get a trophy at some show because he was in the wrong class ?🤣

But I digress. So just my .02  Restored is  just that, back to original, a step up from that would be concours. And yes I know now you can get aftermarket hoses/belts/etc with all the proper date codes an numbers. RestoMods ive always just lumped in to with LS motors, upgraded suspensions and so on. Something you could take too your local dealer to work on. 

Ive never shown a car in a class specific show, ive just pulled in, parked, and had fun.

Ive always done what I wanted to my rides, and always enjoyed what paths others have taken with theirs, well maybe 98% percent of the time. 

 

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Personally I feel the term restoration term is used way to loosely, what Dennis did and a bunch of other members have done  I feel is a restoration.  Replacing and rebuilding individual parts is not. My car has never Been restored, it has had many parts replaced, rebuild some upgrades, paint and body and interior work done but still an unrestored car. (And still needs more) And then are the concours cars which we also have here like Mike Boytes car. If you have never seen this car trust me it will take your breath away. Just my opinion on this matter. 

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Since my screen name has "clone" in it, I hope I don't any backlash. I feel that restoration is just what it means... restored to the way the factory built it. I would have a hard time owning a restored car, because I like to drive mine (when it gets finished) and make changes to make it more comfortable for me. I chose "clone" in my screen name because when she is finished, it will look like a modified Monte Carlo SS, but there is no way that I would ever represent my car as an actual SS. Unfortunately, misrepresentation happens more often when people try to make big money on their cars. When "big money" enters the hobby, it drives the prices up for everyone and brings all the unscrupulous people out of the woodwork. 

John 

 

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21 hours ago, Steve G said:

Well... I have been involved with customs, restorations and good old fashioned down and dirty clean ups with new chrome and paint... the only term that has bothered me for the last 30 years is the saying “frame off restoration” ... it’s wrong... everyone uses it.. is a unibody car worth less than a framed car because it does not have this opportunity? Isn’t “frame out from Under” more correct? I give up. 

Unibodies still have "sub frames", so "frame off" rebuilds still include them..... As far as I can see. :)

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The ones I get a chuckle out of are these guys at car gatherings that come with their "restored" classics, yet have never touched a wrench in their lives.

And proceed to pick out the flaws (or alterations) of cars that the owners have "lovingly" rebuilt with their own hands.  LOL

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5 minutes ago, Scott S. said:

The ones I get a chuckle out of are these guys at car gatherings that come with their "restored" classics, yet have never touched a wrench in their lives.

And proceed to pick out the flaws (or alterations) of cars that the owners have "lovingly" rebuilt with their own hands.  LOL

This bugs me also. Some do not know a nut from a bolt but proceed to tell you all that is wrong with your car and that theirs is perfect    NOT!!!!!

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Very nice 70 Monte but I would not pay that much for a clone.  At that price I would have have wanted to see a radio filling the radio spot rather than empty holes but that is just me.

rob

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On 11/27/2022 at 8:40 AM, Dtret said:

The word so often used when rebuilding something. RESTORATION. “The act of bringing something back to its original condition. “  Of course I will use vehicles because that’s what we do. It may just be me but I see a difference in a restoration and a rebuild. Although the process is much in the same, the end results are completely different. You end up with a car that the manufacturer built or you end up with a car built the way you want it. I have zero problem with either result. But wouldn’t one be considered a restoration and the other be considered a rebuild?  The term “ restoration “ is too loosely used and accepted. My opinion. Agree or disagree? 

Sounds like “somebody” could use a hug…

 

83B80428-1B8F-441A-9D02-747CAFE4CE0E.png

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11 hours ago, Rob Peters said:

Very nice 70 Monte but I would not pay that much for a clone.  At that price I would have have wanted to see a radio filling the radio spot rather than empty holes but that is just me.

rob

 just don't understand the term clone on that one. just because you put some SS badging on it. Maybe Glen's gonna tell me I need a hug now 🤣

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16 hours ago, Scott S. said:

The ones I get a chuckle out of are these guys at car gatherings that come with their "restored" classics, yet have never touched a wrench in their lives.

And proceed to pick out the flaws (or alterations) of cars that the owners have "lovingly" rebuilt with their own hands.  LOL

I like to stand back and listen to an "expert" point out stuff to another person about my car as well. You know, two guys talking and the one providing all kinds of false info about my car and the way the car should be. Just proves that half the folks you know are below average and always makes me smile. 

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52 minutes ago, cbolt said:

I like to stand back and listen to an "expert" point out stuff to another person about my car as well. You know, two guys talking and the one providing all kinds of false info about my car and the way the car should be. Just proves that half the folks you know are below average and always makes me smile. 

This is why I stopped doing car shows with my cars in my younger years...  I would always hear comments like .. “yeah this truck is nice but when I do mine”  I referred to them as the IM GUNNA crowd.

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See I just get a laugh out of it. All the experts out there. For some reason, and maybe I am weird this way, but I find "know-it-alls" funny, especially in that context. It can even be fun to encourage them to keep on with the nonsense, play like you believe them and ask for more info. Yep, I am evil that way. :k

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22 hours ago, Scott S. said:

The ones I get a chuckle out of are these guys at car gatherings that come with their "restored" classics, yet have never touched a wrench in their lives.

And proceed to pick out the flaws (or alterations) of cars that the owners have "lovingly" rebuilt with their own hands.  LOL

Oh yeah, seen this to many times. I was looking at a'68 charger 500 .Guy said he had over $50,000 into it. Nothing was done to it, faded paint, surface rust starting on the lower inner fenders, surface rust on underside of frame. I thought I was looking at a " barn find". So, I asked "what would you want for it" It's not for for sale. He was all over my car as to why I did all the work on it. I told him " because like yours, you don't see many of these around " turned and walked off. Dan and I just didn't understand him I guess.post-259-0-61935100-1474727657_thumb.jpg

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6 hours ago, cbolt said:

See I just get a laugh out of it. All the experts out there. For some reason, and maybe I am weird this way, but I find "know-it-alls" funny, especially in that context. It can even be fun to encourage them to keep on with the nonsense, play like you believe them and ask for more info. Yep, I am evil that way. :k

Yeah, I’m the same way… I like letting people run their mouths when they’re on a soapbox spewing ‘knowledge’ and whatnot. It’s particular rewarding when you can check them in front of their people.  Coworkers who talk shop with little time on are the best to call on their BS. 

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It’s entertaining for me to listen to people who tell me they have never seen a four-speed Monte Carlo before.They always ask me who put it in. I tell them the Van Nuys GM assembly plant, and they can’t understand that. The other group of people are those that tell me that their buddy had an SS 454 Monte with a four-speed. Anyone can put a four-speed in a Monte, but when I tell them Chevrolet never built one then they usually get quite upset at me. Now I just turn away it’s difficult to tolerate stupidity.

John S

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13 hours ago, DragCat said:

 just don't understand the term clone on that one. just because you put some SS badging on it. Maybe Glen's gonna tell me I need a hug now 🤣

exactly! what is to be gained by calling this one an "SS clone"?  it looks nothing like a factory SS   just say very clean customized big block  '70  and negotiate from there...

 

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2 hours ago, John S said:

It’s entertaining for me to listen to people who tell me they have never seen a four-speed Monte Carlo before.They always ask me who put it in. I tell them the Van Nuys GM assembly plant, and they can’t understand that. The other group of people are those that tell me that their buddy had an SS 454 Monte with a four-speed. Anyone can put a four-speed in a Monte, but when I tell them Chevrolet never built one then they usually get quite upset at me. Now I just turn away it’s difficult to tolerate stupidity.

John S

it happens more often than not with us...  probably since the Monte is a bit out of the "classic mainstream"  but if you educate someone on an incorrect statement and they become belligerent or insistent then maybe ,yes, the fun can begin... "oh yea  my uncle also had a '65 monte with a V12 in it...come to think of it , blah blah blah

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