Alex & Keith 72 Monte Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Completing restoration and using much the same harnesses as was installed and worked fine. New high torque starter installed. Lights all work, radio and with key in “on position”, gen & oil light come on fine. When I go to crank, I hear something arch /not sure of sound as I was going to just bump the starter to turn it very briefly. (To preset initial timing). Everything immediately dies. Lights no longer work. Positive wire at starter shows no power using my DC check light tool. When I remove positive battery cable and re-hook it up, lights again work and all systems fine until I go to crank again and everything dies. Have to disconnect starter or positive battery cable on battery again. Ideas to trouble shoot? 350 SBC with HEI distributor. Starter connected as follows; positive from battery to large solenoid post as well as the brown wire running up to firewall post (photo of firewall and left wire connected to post). Purple (showing green for female connector in photo) connected to solenoid small post (S terminal). This should be the wire from the ignition. Since all is fine until I’m engaging the starter, I suspect I must have a short in this mode but strange as battery needs to be disconnected and reattached to see any voltage again period. I have a kill switch on negative side of the battery and in-line linkable fuse in positive wire by starter appears to be fine. thanks All! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 GROUNDS!!!! Do the "trifecta" a ground from the engine to frame, from frame to body, and one from body to engine. They don't have to be all at the same spot. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Keith and/or Alex, I agree with Tom. There is a loose connection somewhere. The arching sound is more than likely coming from that loose connection. The reason the arcing does not happen when the key is in the Acc or on position is the connection isn't loose enough to cause an issue is because the radio and lights don't draw enough current (amps) to cause the arching but the starter draws a ton of current (amps) to overload that loose connection. That loose connection could be the positive or negative wires. The grounding straps that Tom refers to is very good info and the ground straps need to be heavy enough to carry the load. rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex & Keith 72 Monte Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 Thanks for insight agents, I will check into the grounds as I looked at them all yesterday. Will move the one down from alternator bracket to the lower passenger side block. Also have a large one From battery to frame and to fender. Don’t believe I have one back of engine to firewall (a good add?) additional things I tried. Note The starter is new and I may bench test today. I did do this; I disconnected the battery positive from the starter and have it connected to the positive wire running to the firewall. I also disconnected the ignition S wire and it is not connected to anything. I can turn the key to on and everything works. The Idiot lights came on as is normal. I bump it to start and nothing happens and nothing Is shorted. Then I put a test light on he ignition wire and had it grounded, turned the key to start and light works so I am getting juice here with no shorts. Wiring appears to be correct as I double tripled checked… confused on why in-line fuse didn’t blow and why I need to disconnect battery and then reconnect (positive and negative) to see any juice again at lights, etc thanks Gents, Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970mcss Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Keith & Alex, could you possibly have an issue with the neutral safety switch. My car sometimes doesn't want to start and if I pull the shifter to drive and back into park it resets the switch. It does sound like a ground issue. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
714024SPEED Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Did you run a 12 v wire to the Hei because if you use the original I think it's a brown wire from the starter it cases problems with the mini starter. The car will only want to start when you let go of the key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Also, the negative battery cable should be going to the alternator bracket and a smaller wire from the terminal grounding to the fender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex & Keith 72 Monte Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 Thanks for additional feedback. I ran a few more grounding lines to over-do-it (4 gauge) to block, firewalls and frame and left the one at the alternator bracket. I was running HEI with the old style starter and just substituted the mini starter so didn’t change any of the distributor wiring (yellow was cut out prior). I did the same thing on my Vette with HEI and went to new high torque mini starter with no electrical changes. The brown wire ( heavier gauge) runs up through the in-line fuse and to firewall where it feeds to electric radiator, fuse box, etc. I have the smaller gauge brown wire and pink running to the HEI. Advise otherwise Kevin. let me know if all this is correct and anything else to try. Wasn’t successful on bench testing starter and was hesitant to do on the car with possible arching. When I ran extra-grounds and gear (which had been employed on the flex plate by myself and not released) was checked and I added another shim to starter, same results when starting. Everything goes dead and to regain any sign of voltage I have to disconnect both battery connections and reconnect. thanks again for all MC expertise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Ultra stupid question but.... Is the battery good? New doesn't mean it is. Could have a dead cell. Any way to have it load tested? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex & Keith 72 Monte Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 God question. New Optima and I charged it. Appears to be good but will use it Friday with jumpers to bench test the orginal starter. Thanks for thinking outside the box Tom as I’m stumped….stay tuned 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 I don't guess, by chance you would have another starter you could try. Or maybe a "hot jump" of the starter with it on the car to see if it works properly. rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott S. Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Is it possible the mini starter is over drawing current and the built in breaker is weak ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex & Keith 72 Monte Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Bench tested starter and worked fine. Guess what, swapped out the new high torque starter for another new high torque starter and car turned over. They tested different too on the bench for conductivity (opposite on the two large posts). Even though I bench tested the first one with the battery and it was fine, still not sure exactly what was happening. On Monday, Will see if I can get initial time set, add gas to the Holley and crank her up and set total timing…so strange the symptoms on first starter… 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970mcss Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 That's great news. Happy holidays! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Great news K and A!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Congrats... looks like you have a fix. Don't you hate it when a new part fails like that. It must be a Christmas Miracle! rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Yup even new parts fail, it's enough to drive you nuts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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