Offset Upper control shafts

[Jeff Dodson]

Anybody familiar with them. I had my front end alignment and the tech couldn't get the castor even into specs let alone the 3-5+ ... 

I had to put big block springs to lift my 72 back up to around stock hight. It has the deep pocket lower control arms. The tech says he removed all the shims and got it close to spec but is not. I am looking into the Offset shafts. The advertise extending the upper out about 1 1/4 ( inches ? ) thos should be enough to get it into spec at least or even to to 3-5+ castor 

I just need an experienced opinion before I drop 180.00 on them

[Blackhawk]

Are you still running stock control arms?

[Jeff Dodson]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

Are you still running stock control arms?

No sir, they are the Tubular control arms, upper and lower. The lower are deep pockets to lower it. I put BB springs to accommodate for the lower control arms. The alignment guy says that's why he can't get it in spec. I need to know if the offset shafts will give the necessary to correctly align it

[714024SPEED]

A lot of the aftermarket control arms the upper shaft can be mounted two ways. One has a flat side and the other would be the offset side so you may have to just spin the upper shaft around.

[S.Maug]

Been chewing on this also, darn chemo Brain. Kevin is right about the upper shaft. front end and alignment was my forte as a mechanic for many many years. just getting old. 

[Jeff Dodson]

5 hours ago, 714024SPEED said:

A lot of the aftermarket control arms the upper shaft can be mounted two ways. One has a flat side and the other would be the offset side so you may have to just spin the upper shaft around.

I will check that out, thank you

[Blackhawk]

Make sure that the upper control arms have the added caster built in. The less expensive arms tend to have the same geometry as the stock arms, so you don't gain anything for alignment.

[Jeff Dodson]

The ones I have do not have the offset shafts. These are my before and after numbers.

 

It seems to me like the offset shafts will get it  in spec. Just need an experienced opinion before I throw money at these shafts

[Blackhawk]

I doubt that the offset control arm shafts are going to do much for caster. They would make your camber positive, which you don't want.

The tech needs to put in more shims on the rear stud to get more caster. I don't think that the offset shafts allow more shims than the stock shafts. Increased caster should be built into the control arm by moving the ball joint position to the rear in relation to the frame mounting points.

 

Your current alignment doesn't look bad and is miles better than stock settings.

[Jeff Dodson]

14 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I doubt that the offset control arm shafts are going to do much for caster. They would make your camber positive, which you don't want.

The tech needs to put in more shims on the rear stud to get more caster. I don't think that the offset shafts allow more shims than the stock shafts. Increased caster should be built into the control arm by moving the ball joint position to the rear in relation to the frame mounting points.

 

Your current alignment doesn't look bad and is miles better than stock settings.

Doesnt the Camber need to be pushed out to get back into spec. ?

[Blackhawk]

Depends on the specs that you're using. Looks like stock settings for bias ply tires would be:

-1° ± 1/2° Caster
+3/4° ± 1/2° Camber
1/8" to 1/4" Toe In

 

If you're going for a modern, sporty alignment, you would want:

-.25 to -1.5 degrees camber

6 degrees caster

1/8" toe in

 

Keep closer to -.25 to -.5 degrees camber if you're only driving on the street, your tires should wear more evenly.

[Jeff Dodson]

4 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Depends on the specs that you're using. Looks like stock settings for bias ply tires would be:

-1° ± 1/2° Caster
+3/4° ± 1/2° Camber
1/8" to 1/4" Toe In

 

If you're going for a modern, sporty alignment, you would want:

-.25 to -1.5 degrees camber

6 degrees caster

1/8" toe in

 

Keep closer to -.25 to -.5 degrees camber if you're only driving on the street, your tires should wear more evenly.

It does not have the bias ply tires. They are 215/70/15 on front... I am not an alignment guy. Are you saying I'm good at what's at now ?

[S.Maug]

I'm ok with caster, that's usually just to help return Steer wheel to center after turning. but would like camber closer   to spec. been awhile here since my stroke and they retired me. but been performing alignments for over 40 years and started out on all the old ones. today it just set toe and let go. I think Cody's working it . but boy wish I had yours above me hands on it alignment racked up. don't lose heart, I'll bet my last dollar other members too are working the problem. be patient Jeff. going to run a couple of things by another tech I trust Tomorrow.  always a way to get it perfect. together we will !     steve

[S.Maug]

thank you for the numbers. most racks don't recognize 72 monte carlo's.    true story. just like points are "What are those"😂. 

[Jeff Dodson]

Thank you. The car drives great. Straight down the road, no pulling etc. Just don't want to wear my tires 

[Blackhawk]

12 hours ago, Jeff Dodson said:

It does not have the bias ply tires. They are 215/70/15 on front... I am not an alignment guy. Are you saying I'm good at what's at now ?

I'm not an alignment guy, but I think you'll be fine. Adding more caster by shimming the rear mount will probably give you more negative camber, so throwing another shim on each side might get you in the green for camber.

[S.Maug]

I agree with Cody, also enjoy the drive. occasionally stop and feel out the tires with hands or temp Guage. It will show warmer on possible wear areas. we used these methods on several "tough" jobs. haven't been able to get ahold of my fellow alignment pro. he's in hospital with Lyme disease. From those lousy ticks we have in Illinois. ugh. I will keep close until your satisfied ok.

[S.Maug]

and caster won't wear tires. camber and toe will.

[stangeba]

From 1990 in "Muscle Car" about ft end alignment.

Probably not what your looking to do but may answer a question and or help someone else.

https://1971montecarlo.wordpress.com/2023/08/30/front-end-alignment-information-2/

 

[S.Maug]

Right on Bruce !

[Jeff Dodson]

well after consulting with the suspension guy at Global West, i found that the offset shafts only fit their upper control arms. after conversing with him farther, he said the BB Springs are my problem. they are messing with the geometry of the front suspension. Looks like I am putting the other springs back in. Any one interested in a brand new set of BB coil springs. They are MOOG Brand. 

[S.Maug]

yeah, that figures, but as a Moog man you can't go wrong with em. 

[Dtret]

19 hours ago, S.Maug said:

yeah, that figures, but as a Moog man you can't go wrong with em. 

Steve that’s funny you mentioned that. One of my incoming parts orders for today. Older stock too, every piece is made in the USA. Some of the new stuff is Chinese. ( Different color shoes for you raskels). 

[Jeff Dodson]

Well I put the regular springs back in. Gonna take it Monday to get realigned and probably get these FLOWMASTER MUSTANG MUFFLERS removed... I'm not a fan if FLOWMASTER. 

[jft69z]

Which Flowmasters? I have a couple sets of them here, but it definitely makes a difference which model you have. A couple years ago I tested a bunch of them out on my Camaro, including different manufacturers other people swore by.