Ignition starting issues need help

[klassic rob]

Gents need your help, I am at a loss. Car will start a dozen times , go to start lucky number 13 , there is nothing , no click no nothing. I have already replace, starter solenoid, and bench tested, positive battery cable , ignition switch. Haven’t change the ignition cylinder, fuse, or neutral safety. I’m not much of an electrical person. Currently I just dropped the steering column. Decided to call it a day. NEED SOME HELP.

[cbolt]

Question; after unlucky try 13 when the car doesn't start, what if anything do you do to make it start again?

[420ponies]

I know on the ignition switch It can be adjusted high or low on the column. That's where it starts the engine and springs back for the switch to be in the " on" position. Might just need a little bit back up farther on the column. Sometimes they are fussy buggers!

[420ponies]

I usually just let the ignition key rod just touch the button side of the column switch .Then try it there a few times.

[klassic rob]

Last time after lucky 13 I changed the switch. Been starting fine no issues pulled it out of the garage today started no issue. Started couple of times , drove around the neighborhood. Put in garage , put a new connection on the temp sending unit , wire didn’t have good connection . Went to start that’s when nothing. Cylinder goes in lock steering wheel will lock can go behind the lock position radio comes on , go to acc no issue.  Go to start nothing cylinder springs back fine. 

[cbolt]

Sounds like the contact in the column to me. Disclaimer: It's hard to diagnose something like that over the internet. Electrical gremlins are frustrating even to seasoned technicians. 

So, let me get this right. It didn't start and you swapped the switch, which then temporarily corrected the issue? 

[stangeba]

You wrote this:

(I just dropped the steering column.)

FYI, if it is a column shift, like my 71, there is a very small fragile wire attached to the steering column that moves the shift indicator when you move the shifter. It needs to be unhooked prior to "Dropping" the steering column or you could break the wires.

Here is a picture. If you have a floor shifter I don't believe it has any of these things. 4 speed for sure doesn't have it either.

 

[stangeba]

Here is a second picture. See the blue arrow that is pointing to the area of the steering column that the shift indicator wire is attached to.

[cbolt]

I had to really dig for it, but he stated he had a floor shift car. 

[stangeba]

I was wondering about that........

Well perhaps someone else reading it will remember this fragile wire and how to unhook it when they are working on their Monte Carlo.

 

[klassic rob]

Long story in the short, initially I thought it was the starter, the old starter the at times would not engage and just spin after a couple of try it would finally connect with the fly wheel . After a while it would take more than a couple of tries , so I changed the starter it worked for a bit then there was nothing , what is weird with the old starter there was never nothing , I would always get the spinning . So then I started reading old posts , pretty much tried everything. The last fix was the ignition switch . Worked for abitcrjen did it again, moved switch back towards driver just a bit. Started again lasted oh aboit 3 weeks , today first day it didn’t fire. 

[420ponies]

Does the key switch spring back after you engage starter? I always use a AC Delco switch. Seems these are the most brutal of them. Never a problem with them. Others, not so much. This sounds simple to me, check where you're grounded. Always strap from engine to frame bolt ground. It works!🙂

[klassic rob]

Yes the cylinder springs back rather nicely, not sure about the brand of switch. I got it from NAPA. 

[420ponies]

That should be a good brand name. They box them different at the factory.

[klassic rob]

Ground, are talking about the negative cable from head to battery and the lead on the negative is connected to fender. 

[cbolt]

What kind of starter did you get?

When doing aircraft maintenance, the first "rule" of troubleshooting was to start with the last thing you worked on. Maybe you installed a bad part? 

[klassic rob]

Ac Delco, I bench tested it . I agree with 420ponies it is something simple I’ve overlooked , only thing I haven’t replaced is negative cable . My car has set in storage for 21 years . Thanks for all the help Gents. It feels good to have MC BROTHERS to help with a problem. I will give it ago tomorrow , I’ll keep you posted.

[420ponies]

44 minutes ago, klassic rob said:

Ground, are talking about the negative cable from head to battery and the lead on the negative is connected to fender. 

Always run  ground from engine to frame bolt. That cable( battery to head is a given). That little ground to fender is useless in my mind. Ground from the engine to something on the frame..... Genius!!

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

There is 2 firewall to engine grounds and then body mount to frame grounds. To me a ground issue is possible other than that it’s a pretty simple system.First thing fairly easy to check is when you are getting nothing grab a 12 test light hook to a known good 12 volt source preferably the battery take the test end and just touch the starter housing. At that point your test light should illuminate.if it does then we know you are properly grounded if not then really check the grounds to frame . Most likely this is not your problem. Once I know starter and solenoid are grounded now test 12 volt power to ignition switch connector. Remove connector from switch with you test light or ohm meter check to see if you have 12 volts to connector . If yes reconnect the ignition switch connector have someone turn key while you take you test light or ohm meter to the S pole on the solenoid . Do you have 12 volts If yes then it has to be starter or solenoid. If no then check wiring connectors including the main harness connector coming though the firewall because you had power at ignition switch and none at S pole your problem is wiring between those two points or a bad switch . If you had no power at ignition switch then you need to go between switch and neutral safety switch . If you have nothing at neutral safety switch then check from there to fuse block. When you are looking at connectors look for damaged wires , loose connections, the only thing you know for sure is the fuse has to be good or it wouldn’t ever start. Fuses don’t self heal themselves they are good or bad no in between. So the only possible parts are neutral safety switch, ignition switch or starter and solenoid if it’s none of them it has to be connectors or wiring something that can cause intermittent problems.I hope this helps you good luck 

 

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

One last thing is I would also make sure you have 12 volts directly from battery to starter.loose connections and or corroded cables can cause a power drop. I also agree with earlier post always start the last place you work on we can all make mistakes .l

[420ponies]

I know that I replaced the neutral safety switch when I could not get it to start.That's after I replaced the starter. Live and learn.

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

The power flow is from fuse block to ignition switch to neutral safety switch to S pole 

[1970mcss]

I had the same problem with my car. 2 New Ac delco starters, cables, neutral safety switch. My car would be fine and al of a sudden it would do exactly what you are experiencing.  I finally ordered a powermaster mini high torque starter and it has started ever since, knock on wood. I'm usually a factory parts only on my car guy but I couldn't trust the car would start. Good luck finding a cure 

[DragCat]

Just throwing this in the mix, didnt see it mentioned. Check the coil, mine acted similar when it was going bad 

[klassic rob]

Thanks Gents. After 420 ponies last night I went and looked at the ground. Connected to the fender it is almost severed in two. Will check neutral safety switch. And volt system . Thanks Gents.