PLEASE HELP! power windows work than don't

[420ponies]

My '72 has power windows.This past weekend they decided not to work.drivers went up ok, pass.halfway and stopped.I've replaced the power acc. fuse with a 12v-30 amp buss type II fuse (if overtaxed will disconnect and connect when cooled)like a switched circuit breaker.I ordered 2 of these from summit.put it in and the drivers went down,pass.started than stopped part way down.I checked for power from the fuse and it is crossing over.What gives? This happened 2yrs ago and I just replaced the silver box type breaker with this and have had no problems 'til now.Is there something I'm overlooking.does this have a window relay switch?I do not have anything from drivers door switch or other window switches.Like to note the power locks do work.The only thing I can think of is the main switch(driver's door) may be bad? .

[monte70car]

In the drivers side kick panel is a relay box, I replaced my with an aftermarket piece but it would not work with the key on or in acc. Right now my set where I don't need the key on to run the Windows up or down. I do have the same issue as u with my drivers window that won't go up but its something in my switch as you can hear it click

[MC-71]

I would say your problem is the motor. If they are original they are having a Birthday at 40 years old.

[71 MONTE 4 YA]

You might be able to disassemble the window motor and clean the hardened old grease from the gears and relube them. That's what I'm going to do before I install mine. Just a thought.

[MCfan]

The symptoms you describe point to the master switch in the driver's door. If the front passenger window will operate correctly using the single switch in that door, it is almost certainly a faulty master switch. I doubt that your window relay is faulty as it either picks or it doesn't when your turn on your ignition. None of the windows would work in either direction if your relay wasn't picking. If someone has conntected your relay trigger wire to the PWR tab (instead of the IGN tab) in your fuse box, the relay will be picked all the time (assuming your battery is charged and connected). Note that such a connection will allow your windows to operate without the ignition on which is convenient, but is also a significant security risk.

 

When I installed a factory '72 power window system in my '70 last winter, I had similar unreliable operation symptoms during final system testing. I had bench tested the relay and each of the regulator motors and knew they were good. I could also operate the passenger front and both rear windows from their individual single switches so I knew the motors were getting power through those switches.

 

It turned out to be a worn out master switch. Rather than replace it with a repop unit (around $80 each), I simply picked up another master switch from a salvage yard, carefully opened it, thoroughly cleaned the switch rockers, connector pins and contact points and swapped that unit into my original switch housing (which had better chrome). That solved all my window operation problems. The master switch gets the most use and the contacts wear down where the limited travel of the switch rocker can't make good enough contact for reliable operation.

 

I would bet simply replacing your master switch will solve your problems. Of course, you can also try to disassemble your current master switch and lightly polish the contacts on the inside and the connector pins on the outside. Do not file them down or they won't work at all. Getting the switch plate firmly reattached to the switch housing is tricky, but can be done. You have to be very careful bending the small retaining tabs on the pot metal frame or they will break off. If you decide to tackle rebuilding your current master switch, I have quite a few pictures and some more pointers I can share. Just let me know.

[Toppless72]

420ponies,

 

I believe there is another 30 amp circuit breaker under the hood near the horn relay that feeds the accessory fuse. It would have a 10 gage orange wire with a black tracer running from it. It is circuit number 60 on the wiring diagram. If I am correct that circuit breaker could be failing.

 

Check it out and let us know what you find out.

[420ponies]

Thankyou all who replied. I will dive into this today.I will check the other circuit and then see if I have power running to the master switch on the door. these windows have had no problems going up or down until now.I know they turned 40 and could use some new grease in them.I'll do this when I get them to work from the master switch and separate switches.again i don't what I'd do without you helping me along the way.

[420ponies]

Here's what I found so far.power from 12v-30amp fuse from fuse block,check.power going into window switch relay,tan wire (with black tracer) on top of plug) check. power coming out of relay tan wire (next to red with white tracer) ,check.power to red wire(from relay switch) with white tracer going to master switch,NO POWER.so now trying to figure out why this doesn't have power.I also have power coming out of the 10gage wire with fusible link from horn relay.So, what makes the red wire w/white tracer have power to master switch? I am using a horn relay from a 1970 chevy pickup.has the same wire connector as the window relay,12v type.Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[420ponies]

Hi,just to reiterate the last post .the wire next to the red wire (with white tracer is a pink wire,not tan.I've looked through my fisher service manual,(15-6)page, and it states"turn ignition on and with test light check output terminal of relay"(red/white wire).If tester does not light:

a.put test light on ignition relay coil terminal(pink or tan wire).

b.If tester lights,replace ignition relay.

Well,I did that and juice to that wire.so now the ignition relay is bad?I'm going to replace the window switch relay,master window switch(took this apart and the contacts look bad,bad) and also the ignition relay.It has been acting funny, sometimes the gen. light comes on and sometimes you have to move the key for it to light up.maybe that is the problem.But first when I checked the window relay no power going out to the window master switch(red/white wire).I think that was the whole problem why the windows would not work.So couple hundred dollars and maybe I'll have operating windows again! Isn't life grand!!

[Wiham]

Spacing man, spacing. Very hard to read like this.

[420ponies]

Hi All,

Just too update,I should have the new window switch relay and master switch from Harmon's next week.I have replaced the ignition relay switch.3 weeks they told me (keeping fingers crossed).took passenger window motor out and replaced grease.seemed to work ok with old but had to make sure that was not the problem.

[MCfan]

Sounds like you are making progress on solving your power window issues. Since you will be replacing your power window relay, I assume you are aware of its well-hidden power window location? If it is the same on a '72 as a '70 it is in the lower cowl area behind the driver's side kick panel. I found it nearly impossible to remove that kick panel on my non-factory AC car because the lower Astro Vent grill and housing screws have to be removed first and the park brake assembly is right in the way. However, if you have a factory AC car, it may be a snap.

 

I actually installed the relay through the hole I cut in the cowl for the accordian grommet. If I hadn't already had the door off, I'm not sure I would have been able to install the relay in the factory location without removing the park brake assembly to gain access to the housing screws. Here's a couple of pics. Good luck replacing yours.

 

 

 

 

[420ponies]

Hi all,Well the new parts arrived and let me tell you the new master switch is very nice!! I installed the new ignition switch,window relay,and master switch.it all worked.....until I tried the passenger side window,went down,then halfway up and quit,then no power to any windows.no power to the red/white tracer wire coming out of the new window relay.so the problem lies in the passenger window motor.Now just to let everyone know this window is wired wrong (I hope) ever since I bought the car in '04.the "up" position on the master switch is "down" and vice versa going up.the window switch on the passenger door is correct in movement.I tried the windows this morning(except the passenger window)everyone worked(power out of red wire/with white tracer).So the relay is doing it's job.So now the window reg./motor are out of the door and I replaced the grease. it wasn't bad or crusty like I thought it would be.NOW comes the question:Should the motor go faster in one direction than the other? This is happening when hooked up to 12v battery.faster going down than up.I'm going to put it back in and trace my door wires and find where they are switched.I hope not at the master switch (looks factory).I think the gear on the window regulator was the problem,too little grease on that part.Hope to have this back in and operating by the end of the week.Saturday night,drive-in movie night!!Also the new master switch has no stud for the wire connector.Go figure!!I guess silicone should work.Please,your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated!!

[MCfan]

Not sure I followed all you wrote, but it seems the problem should be simple to solve once you isolate it.

 

Hi all,Well the new parts arrived and let me tell you the new master switch is very nice!! I installed the new ignition switch,window relay,and master switch.it all worked.....until I tried the passenger side window,went down,then halfway up and quit,then no power to any windows.no power to the red/white tracer wire coming out of the new window relay.so the problem lies in the passenger window motor.

 

First, it sure sounds like something in your window raising apparatus is binding or catching on the way up. Have you checked the entire operating path for loose stops or anything that could be intruding into it and catching/binding the glass or operating arms?

 

It also sounds like the operation of your passenger window is causing a loss of power/voltage to your entire system, but how do you know it is the motor? Even when the motor is forced to stop operating (i.e. window is all the way up or down), your system should still be providing voltage to all of the switches. Total loss of voltage to your system suggests a problem with your new window relay or a problem with your relay connections or even upstream of your relay (since your relay is brand new). Also, since you replaced your ignition switch and the window relay is picked only when you ignition is on (assuming you have it wired to the IGN and not the BAT terminal on your fuse block), all you sure you reconnected the ignition switch correctly and securely? I suggest checking the voltage going into your relay and all of the connections involved in your recent parts swap.

 

Originally Posted By: 420ponies

Now just to let everyone know this window is wired wrong (I hope) ever since I bought the car in '04.the "up" position on the master switch is "down" and vice versa going up.the window switch on the passenger door is correct in movement.

 

If you mean the master switch positions are backwards for ALL of your windows, your master switch (with connector attached) simply needs to be turned 180 degrees and reinstalled in the panel frame. If you mean that ONLY the passenger window switch (in your master switch) is operating backwards (i.e. the other window switches are operating correctly), I would bet the problem is NOT in your master switch but rather your passenger door. IF the wires to the connector on your motor are reversed (or possibly previously cut and spliced incorrectly), your door switch could still operate correctly if it was installed upside down (looks the same either way, of course). Reversing the wires to your motor connector will fix you master switch problem but reverse the direction at your passenger door switch so just pop it out and turn it (with connector attached) 180 degrees and reinstall it.

 

Originally Posted By: 420ponies

I tried the windows this morning(except the passenger window)everyone worked(power out of red wire/with white tracer).So the relay is doing it's job.

This sounds like you are again getting power to the system so what changed? Are you dealing with an intermittent problem? Can you replicate the original total system power loss by operating the passenger window again? Little point in working on idividual windows if power to the whole system is unreliable.

 

Originally Posted By: 420ponies

So now the window reg./motor are out of the door and I replaced the grease. it wasn't bad or crusty like I thought it would be.NOW comes the question:Should the motor go faster in one direction than the other? This is happening when hooked up to 12v battery.faster going down than up.I'm going to put it back in and trace my door wires and find where they are switched.I hope not at the master switch (looks factory).I think the gear on the window regulator was the problem,too little grease on that part.

The power windows on both of my '70s operate faster going UP than down. That is by design. That big coil spring in each of your power regulators has to be wound while the window is going down and that usually slows the motor down (in spite of the weight of the window glass helping). When going UP, the motor is aided by the stored energy in the coil spring which helps lift the weight of the glass and allows the motor to run a bit faster. In your case, the motor seems to run faster (relatively) going DOWN (are you SURE it was gowing down and not up when it was slower?). If the regulator was installed in your car when you observed that you must have some unusual binding going on in the UP travel OR there is not adequate voltage getting to that side of the motor. That could easily be the case IF the wires to your passenger window motor were ever cut and poorly/incorrectly spliced. If the regulator was out of your car being bench tested when you observed that (assuming your test connections and voltage were good), it is possibly a weak regulator motor.

 

BOTTOM LINE: To correct the switch direction, I would first trace the wires (as you plan to do), starting in the passenger door and look for a splice where the wires may have been crossed and/or poorly rejoined. Resplice the wires and then rotate the passenger door switch if necessary to get the correct up/down direction. A good connection on the UP circuit may also fix your window up travel and speed. If not, I would look for anything that is binding or stopping the UP travel mid way. If nothing can be found there, I would pull the passenger window regulator and carefully bench test it, assuming I will have to replace the motor if the power failure is internal.

 

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[420ponies]

Found the problem, passenger side window, picture in gallery under 420ponies. Can't figure out how to add pic to reply post. Still can't figure out why master switch for passenger switch is opposite of the rest of the switches. All wires look factory taped. Could passenger side master switch wires be switched in wire connector?? Window switch on passenger side is correct. Any ideas?

[MCfan]

Glad you found the problem. I would bet your master switch is wired correctly (in the connector) but the wires were somehow crossed before they reach the regulator motor - probably in a earlier incorrect splicing job.

 

Since the passenger door switch is working in the right direction, you CAN swap the wires in your master switch connector so up is up and down is down. Following is an explanation of how to do it:

 

You have to switch the positions of the two wires/connectors that operate the passenger side window so identify which two they are first. Then, to remove them from the plastic switch connector housing, take a sharp metal scribe and insert the point into the respective connector pin hole in the housing at a sharp enough angle to get the point behind the short side of the metal connector (the side opposite the one that the wire is connected to) as it sits inside the housing. Then use the scribe to pry that side of the connector toward the center of the connector pin hole while tugging gently on the wire. The wire with the connector on it should slide right out.

 

Be sure to take a photo of the connector or note the colors of the wires you are reversing. They should be the same color (either brown, green, purple or blue) but one will be solid and the other will have a stripe on it. When both have been removed from the master switch connector housing (only the two that correspond to the passenger window switch, of course), simply switch their position when you plug them back into the connector housing. Now reassemble your master switch and connector housing. Your switch should now operate in the same direction as your window. Good luck.

[420ponies]

Hi Dennis,

I went back out to look at the wires and I will have to do this (change out the master switch connector wires).I just had too much of trying to pin-point the problem.that wire that is rubbed will be repaired and re-routed out of the way of the window regulator.I cannot see where they might have re-spliced the wires to the window regulator, but I can see why it needs to be changed when I bench tested the window motor,that spring does get some tension on it.Thankyou again for your help in this matter.I always know someone on here will have answer to my questions.Thanks Again!!

[420ponies]

Hi all,I finally got it all back together and here to say works better than ever!! I did spend more than I wanted to on parts ($165.00) ,but now they are "like new" again.Took it out for a "shakedown cruise" and had a blast.Took it to the drive-in last night,seen "Campaign" with Will Ferrell And "Batman The Dark Knight Rises" did't get home 'til 1:30am!! Now it's time to go to a car show.

[MCfan]

Great! Congratulations on a successful repair! It's always a good feeling to be able to fix something yourself.

 

After messing with the power windows on both of my '70s, I am amazed at how durable they seem to be. I purchased a new German-made auto in the mid 80's (been there, done that, never again!). As soon as the two-year warranty expired, the power windows began to fail - repeatedly. They used a mickey-mouse cable system and the ends of the cables would always pull right out of their pot-metal retainers. I can't remember exactly how many times I had to repair or replace those power window mechanisms but it was more than once for each of the four doors. Unfortunately, that was only one type of failure that car experienced. I took it back to the dealer to trade on a used Japanese car for my daughter and they didn't even want it back!

 

Enjoy the car show!

 

[72Ragtop]

I can't stand to have to have the key in the ignition and then to have to have it in the ON or ACC position to put the windows up or dowm so I always bipass that relay. (A-Body wagons had the same @#$% thing on the tailgate window and Convertibles had them on the power top). Simply remove the the two 10 or 12 gage wires (orange (or Org/Wite) and red (or Red/Wite) from the relay and plug them together using a 40Amp fuse or (Better yet)30 Amp circuit braker.

[420ponies]

I will consider that idea.I'm just happy they all work now.Thankyou for the info.