Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have been talking to my rep's at a couple of major cam companies lately. They all have been getting a lot of premature lobe failures of late. According to the testing and investigations done by the companies it seems the new motor oils are to blame. The new API service spec new car oils have no zinc content, the zinc acted like an extreme pressure lube, but also plugged catalytic converters overtime. Only oils left with zinc are racing oils and desiel oils. The best of the "D" oils for use in gas engines is Shell Rotella T as it has the highest zinc content even more than the race oils!! I will be useing the Rotella T as break in oil from this point forward regaurdless of lifter design and would suggest you do as well. Also would rec that any one running roller rockers or roller lifters switch to a oil with zinc still in the additive package ASAP!! To my knowledge the only oils with zinc are Valvoline racing, The synthetic racing oils and Shell Rotella T and Mobil's Delo. The rotella is safe/rated for gas engines. If you know of a oil with zinc still post it here! This is a very serious deal and could cause engine failure! Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteAZBB70 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks, Don! This info couldn't come at a better time; the UPS guy just dropped off my cam. I found this site: oil specs which puts Valvoline Racing out front for zinc content. There is no specific mention of Rotella T though. I went to Shell Lubricants in the USA CJ-4 FAQ which states that the amount of zinc in Rotella T will be reduced in 2007. This probably isn't the best place to ask, but would you recommend any specific viscosity for cam breakin? Thanks! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I knew about the 07 reduction, Are you putting a new cam only in or is this a rebuild? Looks like the 20w50 valvoline racing is the best on content, my reps all seemed to like the rotella for some reason. Must be something they like in the additive package. As far as regular running oil after break in, 10w30 Valvoline racing for a new build and 10w40 valvoline racing for higher milage deal or the 15w40 shell your choice. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckeng Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 For my last job (I just quit ), I audited the product and lab facilities at the Shell Oil Wood River Illinois plant. I took that opportunity to also talk to their engineers who actually made/processed the oil, and they all used the Rotella T in their performance cars. Several had "Vettes" and some had strictly Race cars of different sorts etc. They had the utmost of faith in Rotella T. All the items that we tested for the audit were well within specs which led me to trust them too. Along with the extra zinc, the diesel oils like the Rotella have additives to clean an engine more-so than normal oil. They explained that oils should be designed so that they look dirty almost right away which is actually just the oil suspending the contaminants it picks up as opposed to depositing them on the engine block, in cracks, lifters etc and leaving them there. The Rotella was designed to do this to an extreme degree due to it being used in Diesels where their high cylinder pressure leads to increased blowby and therefore a higher degree of contaminants in the oil. Just a little plug for Shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 How about the Quaker state pure synthetic for H.P. motors, I've been using that for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 ROYAL PURPLE HERE ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteAZBB70 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks for the feedback Don. I'm just doing a cam swap (timing chain, valve springs, lifters, etc.) for now. Trying to get as much life out of my 402 as I can for the time being. It appears that the motor was rebuilt at some point, but I don't know to what degree or how well yet. Looks like I'll be hunting for some Rotella T! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Royal Purple here, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Royal Purple is good,I use it myself in the race version. I have seen hundreds of engines that died prematurely due directlt to the "Big Q". The full synthetic stuff is cleaner than the reqular but still gunks up an engine and has a weak film strength. I know some NASCAR teams run the decals and get sponsor money from the big Q, none of them trust it in the racecars!! Valvoline,Royal Purple, and AMSOIL is in most of the cars! Robyn E-mail me for the low down on the big Q. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Relax Robyn it's still alive so theres time!!!!! LOL It's not so much instant damage as it is a matter of sludge build up. Even though it's advertised as full synthetic Valvoline,Q,Penzoil,Castrol and Mobil all start with natural crude base that is molecularly modified. So you still get the pariffin wax base from Q and penziol. This is the problem. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Thanks for the info Don. I was wondering with the thrust bearing problem I've kept you informed about and with the cam change I'm doing what oil would you reccommend when my engine goes back in? With about 1500 miles on the motor before wiping out the thrust bearing do I start at zero miles for break in, or I'm I going to be done with my break in and which oil for which? I'm also curious as to whether, or not I can go straight to dyno tuning at 6000rpm's once everything checks out after firing the engine up? Thanks. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Thanks for the info on the oil Don, makes me feel a lot better after reading this post as I have been running Rottela T in my personal vehicles for about 15 years now. I can verify the ads they used to run with a picture of the crosshathces in the cylinders after running 750,000 miles as I have actually had the heads off engines with this kind of milage. (big truck engines) The one vehicle that I Run Quakerstate 5W30 in is my wifes car, she was running that in it before we got married and I've never had good luck switching from one brand to another as it seems to make gaskets leak or make a sensor go bad or something, so I stuck with it. The car has about 260,000 on it now and it uses just over a quart to 3,000 miles, can't complain. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Ok, so what do you recommend for my 2.3 turbo. Its a small stock t/3 .63 trim garrett. It is only oil cooled. There is a factory oil cooler at the filter that coolant goes through but thats it. All the SVO boys recommend frequent oil changes because of the high oil temps from the turbo. Monte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Monte, A lot diesels are still have no water cooling on the turbo and run 800/900 degrees exhaust temps for hours at a time. The shell Rotella is formulated to survive that condition and carries gas engine compliance as well. Royal purple racing sythetic can take the heat as well. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 For the past 7 years I have been placing this in the Northern IL. Chevelle Club newsletter. Based on this, I have been using Rotella in my older cars; they make it in both regular and Semi-synthetic. I buy it at Farm & Fleet where it is cheaper than anywhere else. - SEARCHING FOR THE RIGHT ENGINE OIL FOR “KEEPER CARS” - Excerpted from Patrick Bedard’s commentary in Car & Driver November, 1999, p.23 Each year I run this article so that those who haven’t read or forgot about it, will have the information to make a smart choice of oil for our cars for storage. “Ed Kollin was a research chemist at the Exxon engine test lab and is now director of R&D for Lubrication Science and creates designer lubes to solve special problems. He tells about one ingredient that swells up oil seals to keep them snug. He addressed “keeper cars”, those between 20-50 years old. The problem is these cars don’t get driven much, maybe once a month and what oil should be used? Ed’s answer was “I could design an oil for this application”, but for an off-the-shelf solution he would choose a “heavy duty” oil intended for diesel trucks. Instead of SJ on the can, look for combinations that begin with C (for compression ignition). CG-4 is the latest, preceded by CF-4, CF-2, etc. While the oil part of these diesel oils has the same lubricating qualities as passenger car oil, the diesel oil get bigger doses of the additive packages. Up to 80 percent of ZDDP (the primary anti-wear and anti-oxidation additive, but when it goes through a catalytic converter, it hurts it). 30-50 percent more detergent, dispersant and corrosion inhibitors. The downside to this is that the nitrogen compounds in the high dose of dispersant may cause some seals to leak, but if you change your oil a lot, your engine should be clean. The good news? If you have sticky rings – erratic compression, blue exhaust smoke, this high detergent oil will quickly free them up. For corrosion, he says, heavy-duty oil is the silver-bullet solution. It’s blended to neutralize the sulfuric acid produced by high-sulfur diesel fuel.” “There are some good tips from someone who has spent his life making engine oil to meet all the changing characteristics of the modern internal combustion chamber operating in an ever tightening emissions world.” “One quote worth noting. “Fuels today, in many cities, have oxygenates, ethanol or MTBE, as a sort of political remedy for carbon-monoxide pollution. Fuel gets in the oil. You can have 5-10 percent dilution. These oxygenates are tremendously corrosive and they attack gaskets, seals and certain metals. No problems for automakers; they choose new polymers and alloys that are immune to these attacks. But what’s to prevent the attacks, and the corrosion, in older engines?” Another consideration for regular oil changes on our ‘keeper cars’.” Learned something new. When looking at the SAE engine oil rating what does the S in SJ mean? “S” stands for “Spark Ignition”. C is “Compression ignition”. You can get the diesel grade oil for a great price at Farm & Fleet, in regular or semi-synthetic (which doesn’t cost too much more). George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Wow guess This is good timing, I just got my block and heads back from the machine shop, I have a newly bored 30 over sb 400 with a new mild street cam, but if I am using rotella T what weight am I going to put in? the shop put 4 qts. of 10-30 in my block. and how much oil do I put in, isnt it 5 quarts when full incl. the filter? Im planning on having it ready to fire on Friday. Please HELP I dont want to ruin her after all this $$ ive spent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Break in procedure? New engine on dyno first time, fire up and run at 2500 rpms for 20 min if its a flat tappet cam. Change oil check valve lash. Make a few short pulls to tweak carb and timing then drop the hammer! A roller cam engine fire run at 1600/1800 rpms till at operating temp, shut down change oil check valve lash, refire due short pulls to check tune once I think the tune is close hammer time. At this point the tuning process is the same just keep tweakin' and hammering til there;s no gains made. The process takes a hour maybe if you are used to doing it, have seen guys pay for and entire day because they want to do it thereself. As for break in once the rings seat the break in is done!! Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Break in procedure? New engine on dyno first time, fire up and run at 2500 rpms for 20 min if its a flat tappet cam. Change oil check valve lash. Make a few short pulls to tweak carb and timing then drop the hammer! A roller cam engine fire run at 1600/1800 rpms till at operating temp, shut down change oil check valve lash, refire due short pulls to check tune once I think the tune is close hammer time. At this point the tuning process is the same just keep tweakin' and hammering til there;s no gains made. The process takes a hour maybe if you are used to doing it, have seen guys pay for and entire day because they want to do it thereself. As for break in once the rings seat the break in is done!! Don engine tech moderator maybe we should tack this one on the top of this forum for good I know a lot of people want to know what is the correct way to break in a engine. 2cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yellow, it was pinned to the top the day Don posted it. The little red "push pin" thing on the main engine forum page (next to the subject line) means it will stay at the top. Monte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Break in procedure? New engine on dyno first time, fire up and run at 2500 rpms for 20 min if its a flat tappet cam. Change oil check valve lash. Make a few short pulls to tweak carb and timing then drop the hammer! A roller cam engine fire run at 1600/1800 rpms till at operating temp, shut down change oil check valve lash, refire due short pulls to check tune once I think the tune is close hammer time. At this point the tuning process is the same just keep tweakin' and hammering til there;s no gains made. The process takes a hour maybe if you are used to doing it, have seen guys pay for and entire day because they want to do it thereself. As for break in once the rings seat the break in is done!! Don Monte I meant this part (Quote above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 OK sounds good, but Can I run the SAE 30 Rotellea T for the break in or should I use a different weight. I have a Hydraulic cam and lifters. THANKS !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Depends on wether the engine is loose or tight on the clearnces. Around here I only find rotella in 15-40. It its on the tight side 15-40 will work fine, if its loose say .002" rod bearing clearance or .0025" on the mains then 20-50 valvoline racing is in order. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busmechanic Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Got my Comp XE274 and the instructions clearly state to use Rotella. My question is that the cam came with lube and I used it all on cam and lifters as instructed to, Then the engine has sat for 2 weeks and I think all the lube may have dripped off. I then added LUBERPLATE to all the lobes, and installed the manifold. I ran the valve train today and I now have to go undersize on my pushrods so engine is going to be at least another week before it fires up. Any advice or comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 so are you saying I should stop using the store-brand SAE-30HD oils? :> It maeks me wonder.. I was running 10w30 "Advance Autoparts" oil.. latest SAE rating.. and I don'/t know for sure if I over-lashed a lifter, but it TOTALY ate the #3 exhaust lobe off the cam. it's so bad you can see the #3 exh. rocker hardly moving compared to the other 7 on the drivers side... new cam ti me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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