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200R4 vs 700R4 vs GV OD


CKZ03

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The 200r the gears are closer together where the 700r has a bigger first gear (3.06). The 200r the Cory has can handle 50/500 hp and 400/450 ft/lbs. of torque which is the companies level 2, they do have on that can handle above 450 hp and 450 ft/lbs. of torque which is a level 3. The 700r level 2 can handle a steady diet of around 450/500 hp and 400/450 ft/lbs. of torque. and leve 3 is has a 630 Maximum HP rating and can still handle 400-450 FT/LBS of torque.

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You'll enjoy the overdrive. I have a 200-4R out of an 85 MC SS in my 70 and it made it much more drivable. I can run highway speeds (70-75mph) at around 2400RPM with a 3.31 posi rear gear and a 350 ZZ4 crate motor. I did a big block swap to a stock looking 402 this winter, so I'll have to see if that changes things any.

 

If you want to go with an original 200-4R for a core, they say to look for the one's from the Grand Nationals, MC SS, etc. I had mine rebuilt with several hardened parts to help strengthen it. They are getting more popular, so do your research and you should be able to find something that works for what you are looking for. Or order up a new one from a place like Bowtie Overdrives to the specs that you want too.

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That tranny is stronger than I thought. I never paid any attention to them because I had seen them behind a lot of 4.3L V6. All that is needed for the 200 is a TV cable? Its seams a less complicated install than my 4l80E was. I think I'm going to have to keep a lookout when I'm in the bone yards for one. Sounds like it would go great behind my LT1 I have.

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The other advantage I had with going to the 200-4R was that I was swapping out a TH350. By switching to the 200 instead of the 700, I didn't have to cut the driveshaft. The cross member just slides back a notch to the TH400 spot since the cross member mount on the 200 is further back than the TH350, but has the same driveshaft length.

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Got the OK to test drive from BTO, they have you do some pressure testing and report back to them with results before they clear you to drive the car, for warranty reasons. Only got to put on about 12 miles so far, working around a week of rain here in Michigan. I'm very pleased with the performance. Made dramatic changes in several areas. Woke things up a bit coming out of the hole, added bonus very happy with that. First gear in my th350 didn't seem to run out long enough for me and seemed to shift early into second unless I manually shifted. The 200-4R runs out first gear nicely and holds it well depending on how much your into throttle, liking that. And a new strange sensation of a forth gear shift grin Major and very impressive rpm drops (I have a 3.55 rear 27" tire) from former 3000 @ 60 mph to now 1900 @ 60 mph and from 3500 @ 70 mph to 2300 @ 70 mph, gotta love that! I will give you guys some more feedback on the 200-4R as I put some more miles on, I'm very anxious to check my fuel economy. Never been so excited to burn thru a tank of gas lol

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Glad to hear you are happy with it so far. You'll enjoy the fuel economy as well. I got around 19-20 MPG with the ZZ4 crate motor (rated at 355HP) when I switched to the 200-4R. I'm interested to see what it does this summer with the big block installed now. Between the fuel economy and lower RPM at highway speeds, it makes the car much more drivable though. I've had mine all the way up to St. Ignace for the car show up there. Always fun to drive across the Mackinac Bridge in a classic car.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Glad it is working out for you. I too bought a level 2 with a 2400 converter from BTO. I put it behing a mildly built 402 ( about 360 hp) in the spring of 2012. Overall, i am happy with the exchange. My personal dealings with BTO has been good overall. The owner, Rich Weller is personable and also very knowledgeable. Some of the other techs are not as friendly and seem to come and go. They definitely build a tough transmission. It is imperative that you purchase their proprietary "tv made easy" kit for your carburetor. They base the cable and throttle valve on it soley! The holley 2004r brackets will work but are not optimal and exhibit odd behavior characteristics. (ie. short spring syndrom as well as stack shifting and long spring syndrome . I recently slapped together a 9.7:1 454 with a 800 double pumper and used the holley geometry brackets to save some money. ( i had the quadrajet tv made easy previously). I ended up buying their tv made easy kit for the holley because i didn't like the shifting behavior. Also, i couldn't get the cable to ratchet and had to use a pressure gauge. After buying their kit, the cable immediately ratcheted and shifted much better.

Some key recommendations:

 

Always use a pressure gauge when you SET the cable

 

You do not adjust the cable!!!!! You set it and forget it. Period!

 

If it doesn't shift how you like it, consult them about installing a different spring or changing the governor.

 

Yes, the dipstick and converter cover are cheesy, very cheesy.

 

Make sure that you are achieving full throttle at the pedal. Our team member Mike (old blue), advised me through his observation, that i wasn't....in went the lokar cable.

Have faith in their durability. I am running a level 2 behind a roughly 500hp big block that gets beat up on...no issues yet.

Watch low LSA cams. Unless im on the highway, it lugs and i am currently trying to tune it out...it's futile. Cam is lunati 60212. With 110 lsa.

Read BTO's website on the methodology of the 2004r. It is insightful and you will gain an understanding on how these work and when the throttle valve seats and throttle geometry.

I have a 3:42 and i'm at 2200 at 70mph. I am considering going to a 3:73. Not much difference but may improve light throttle cruising.

Finally, my biggest gripe is i have to shift maually. The governor that came installed, shifts at 4400 rpm at WOT. BTO sells lighter governors for around $100.

Feel free to send me a pm if you have any questions and good luck. You'll enjoy your car much more.

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I have question is an original automatic trans from a 92 firebird v8 interchangeable to a 92 firebird with the v6?

Thanks

Johnr

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  • 1 month later...

So after getting some miles on this BTO stage 2, 200-4R trans, I'm really loving it! I got an amazing 20mpg at 80mph cruising down the highway back & forth from Michigan to Kentucky this past weekend. It would obviously get over 20 if I could drive a little slower lol Great combination with my 3.55 gears, very happy with everything!

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I only averaged a hair over 13 pulling the Monte pull behind. I have to do some checking to see if the tranny will not handle the trailer or if some other problem has arisen.

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Possibly working on the aerodynamics of the front of your trailer may help Larry, the front is completely flat. Also I did not see it hooked up to your car while in Ky but if it tilts upward it will create a ton of drag. I would make sure it tilts downward a touch if not completely level for optimum results. You may have to mess with your hitch height to get the pitch just right. Might want to check the wheel bearings too & grease the heck out of them.

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The trailer does tilt down in front after I installed the 1 1/2" spacers between the axle and spring. Bearing buddies on the wheels to keep a fair amount of grease to the bearings. I am just going to have to keep tweeking it until I get optimum performance.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm thinking of going this route too but it would be going behind a 6.0 ls motor. I'm shooting for around 500 hp range, do you guys think a 200r4 mildly built will take it well? I'm running 3.89 rear gears and I'm really trying to avoid the 4l80e cause of the pure size and gear spread isn't as good.

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Considering an LS swap myself, a stage 2 or 3 BTO 200-4R would probably be fine behind a 500hp LS - BUT you will have to use an older LS intake that is cable operated or go carburated to have proper TV cable set up. There is no way to tie in the TV on the more modern LS intakes/throttle bodies that are wire controlled (non mechanical wire driven gas pedal). Here is BTO's TV set up for older LS throttle bodies/intakes

 

http://www.tvmadeez.com/ls1_cam/

 

You will also need a special flexplate designed for older trans types to mate up with the LS and a bushing kit or special converter for the snout on the converter.

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  • 4 months later...

Awesome thread! Great info and good reading.

 

I really want to put a 200r behind my mild 350 (replacing my TH350, 3.73 rear). My dilemma is I'm planning on replacing my motor next year with a 400+ cubic inch stroked motor (no power adders) and the engine builder doesn't think the 200r can handle the power.

 

Will a stout 200r that can handle 500-600 horsepower / torque work with my current and future set up?

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Hey Cory, I am sold on my 700R. It may not be in a monte but in the same era 71 shortbox I have it hooked up to a 350 that has about 460hp and the EZ Fast Fuel System. It runs out great on the highway and I dont feel like I need an extra gear, I find  with this set up its enjoyable.

Darren

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20140920_184515_resized_2_zpsf641f240.jp

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Awesome thread! Great info and good reading.

 

I really want to put a 200r behind my mild 350 (replacing my TH350, 3.73 rear). My dilemma is I'm planning on replacing my motor next year with a 400+ cubic inch stroked motor (no power adders) and the engine builder doesn't think the 200r can handle the power.

 

Will a stout 200r that can handle 500-600 horsepower / torque work with my current and future set up?

 

As Sam says, if the 200R or 700R is properly upgraded, it should be no issue.

 

I am running a 200R behind the 500 HP Big Block in my Monte without any issues. That tranny was upgraded by the original Art Carr.

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Keep a raw egg between your foot and the gas pedal, don't break it, your mileage will go way up!

OD is the way to go! Now their selling 9 speed transmissions, wow.

The converter lock up is important, make sure it is working and your speedometer / odometer is accurate.

Bruce

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I'm running Classic Instruments "Skydrive" for my speedo/odometer calibrations, don't get much more accurate than this...

 

http://www.hotrod.com/news/classic-instruments-skydrive-gps-speedometer/

 

http://www.classicinstruments.com/

 

However, only flaw is, it doesn't work in tunnels and occasionally going down roads with large, dense overhead tree branch/leaf coverage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Awesome thread! Great info and good reading.

I really want to put a 200r behind my mild 350 (replacing my TH350, 3.73 rear). My dilemma is I'm planning on replacing my motor next year with a 400+ cubic inch stroked motor (no power adders) and the engine builder doesn't think the 200r can handle the power.

Will a stout 200r that can handle 500-600 horsepower / torque work with my current and future set up?

It will, if it's built right. I would not use Bowtie OD for a high HP one though. I bought one from them years ago, shortly after it failed on me, we took it apart and found most of the parts they used were basically stock, not high performance. The OD solenoid never worked from the beginning, and their stall converters are far from "high performance". I'm not trying to rag on them, they are fine for street use cars, but I didn't have luck when I pored the coals to one. I view them like any old local trans rebuilder, but with a good website. Deal with someone that builds them for drag cars and is in to turbo Grand Nationals that have big power.

 

I've also read some info in this thread that I wouldn't consider 100% accurate. Learn about the trans and what the TV cable actually does. This will help you to understand how to adjust the pressure and have it shifting correctly. Also, there are better tv brackets than the one from bow tie. I think their geometry is a little off. I don't know how anybody is using 373 or higher gears with that overdrive, they must have dinky cams or stump puller big blocks; I had to go to 4:56's just to keep it from surging. And expect to pony up a grand if you want a real torque converter. You need a serious lock up clutch to lock it at full throttle when you have 500 hp. The 300$ ones people sell will last about 2 passes before that clutch burns up.

 

I'm only speaking from experience; I spent a lot of money to learn the hard way. Good luck.

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Winston Wolf: Thanks for the input. I'm trying to get keep my options open. I would rather have an over built transmission if I decide to a super charger or turbos down the road. Looking at CPT's Ultimate 200R ($2700) + lock up torque convertor ($800),things can get pricey.

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