Ignition starting issues need help

[klassic rob]

Also installed new positive cable good connection at starter. I will double check. 

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

1 hour ago, DragCat said:

Just throwing this in the mix, didnt see it mentioned. Check the coil, mine acted similar when it was going bad 

If I understood correctly he isn’t getting any engagement from starter at all .I wouldn’t think coil would effect that. If starter was engaging but engine would not start then I could see possible coil problem. I am no expert or mechanic just trying to get this straight in my head but there is no better advice than past personal experiences sometimes cars do crazy things that don’t make sense 

[DragCat]

25 minutes ago, GRAY 70 Monte Carlo said:

If I understood correctly he isn’t getting any engagement from starter at all .I wouldn’t think coil would effect that. If starter was engaging but engine would not start then I could see possible coil problem. I am no expert or mechanic just trying to get this straight in my head but there is no better advice than past personal experiences sometimes cars do crazy things that don’t make sense 

I completely agree.....sometimes it would click, sometimes nothing. Ironically had to have other towed home from its first show ☹️ And try going to the parts store these days and asking for a coil for a GM HEI dizzy on a 70 Monte 🤣

[Chevy Dave]

I had the same issue and it ended up being the gear and sector that engages the ignition switch inside the steering column. I sent the column to a place in California to be rebuilt.

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

8 minutes ago, Chevy Dave said:

I had the same issue and it ended up being the gear and sector that engages the ignition switch inside the steering column. I sent the column to a place in California to be rebuilt.

Now that makes sense the gear not pulling the rod all the way into crank position on the ignition switch 

[klassic rob]

I will keep you guys posted . All great suggestions, I am running   An delco Remy HEI. 

[stangeba]

Is it now running 12 Volts and not through the resistor that stock points and condenser require?

 

[Scott S.]

Just my two cents, but a couple years back, I have something like this happen.

Would fire Montelishi up, go for a drive, stop for gas, and no start.

Found that the positive battery terminal wasn't making a clean contact. If I tapped it around, it would find a connection and start again for a few more rounds.

Finally just swapped in a whole new set of cables and haven't had a problem since.

Also swapped the battery at the same time, so it might have even been a bad connection inside the battery ??

[klassic rob]

Yeah. Found the the ground lead on the negative want so good has some broken wires. Question Gents going to change out neutral safety switch, might as well pretty much did everything else. The one currently on it is a four pin. Is it the same as chevelle

[Dtret]

Can’t say 100 percent without looking them both up but I would bet the answer is yes. 

[420ponies]

'72 , 4 pin connector neutral safety switch.

[klassic rob]

Afternoon Gents took a couple of days away fron the car, ordered neutral safety switch, just wainting on it. i have received some awesome input on what to lok for 

so i thank you all. last question have a spot right side of the engine block where i can bolt a ground and run to frame. what gage wire should use. Thanks gents.

[jft69z]

45 minutes ago, klassic rob said:

last question have a spot right side of the engine block where i can bolt a ground and run to frame. what gage wire should use. Thanks gents.

I would say anything 8 gage or larger. A couple of my cars have a lot of electronics, so I just looked to see what I had installed. The Monte has 2 gage., the Camaro has 6 gage. I also run separate grounds to the core support and body (I don't usually run that little pig tail to the right fender, off the battery cable, hence the better ones listed before). Can't hurt to go bigger on the wire size.

[klassic rob]

thank you Sir. i have 3 copper ground straps. i think i will use them also, figure it cant hurt , possibly run one from the starter to frame. the one from engine to fire could be replaced also. 

[DragCat]

As Joe stated....I'm (looking for a family friendly word) let's just say over the top on grounds. 🤣 Especially with any additional mods you may opt for. 

[Blackhawk]

Both the ignition switch and neutral safety switch should have a built in hole on the housing that you stick a pin or drill bit into for alignment. The alignment could be just a hair off and cause intermittent issues. I used a drill to set my neutral switch and a tapered scratch awl to set the ignition switch after it came loose a few weeks ago.

Intermittent problems suck to diagnose without throwing parts at it. I would try disconnecting the battery and do a continuity check, working your way up or down the circuit. Put the negative end of the multimeter where the power comes into the fuse panel from the engine bay, and you could start with the purple wire going to the starter solenoid. Turn the key to start and see if it continually has a connection at start, and work your way back to find the point that it is no longer intermittent. If it's at the neutral switch you may have to play with the shifter or the rod on the engine side of the column (if you still have a column-mounted neutral switch). Wiggle the wires if the power loss is found to be any connector, especially at the fuse panel.

[Blake350]

I know this may sound silly but occasionally with a GM starter that goes 'dead' intermittently it was a dead spot on the armature.. we would go under and gently tap the case with a hammer and it usually worked..of course the next step was to swap out the starter... but with multiple components between "the key and the flywheel" it can be a pain to narrow down as you have shared...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stangeba]

I remember back in 1980 when my 71 wouldn't start and I would tap the starter with a hammer and it would be OK for a few starts.

I had the starter rebuilt the brushes were worn out and that was the problem.

[Blake350]

23 hours ago, stangeba said:

 

I had the starter rebuilt the brushes were worn out and that was the problem.

that sounds more like it... maybe as they wear they get hung up and can be coaxed back into enough contact to run a few more times...that "dead spot" phrase was what we went with back in 1977 or so...what did we know...only that the hammer worked!!

[klassic rob]

yeah still not want ing to start, took advise from earlier postes, replaced NSS and ignition switch, used the alignment hole on both set them in nothing, added a ground from the passenger side head to the frame connected it to the bolt for the sway bar, got rig of the pigtail on the negative cable. went back to the beginning took starter back to NAPA got a new one, (under warrenty. still nothing.  ignitin cylider feels fine , got a nice spring back from the start position , accessory works , steering wheel lock everything is good, with it or so it seems, wouldnt think the gear and rack is bad. getting ready to check all the wiring next. did one last adjustment to the ignition swith.pulled just a hair towards wheel. streuggling with this gents, im not much of and electrical guy, got my mutlimeter and going to give is a shot.  thanks to everyone who has chimed in. i guess the plus is after setting 21 years. it could be worse.

[Scott S.]

This might be a silly question, but how old is your battery ?

And have you had it load tested recently ??

[klassic rob]

new just picked one up saturday.

19 minutes ago, Scott S. said:

This might be a silly question, but how old is your battery ?

And have you had it load tested recently ??

 

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

We need to follow the circuit. First on the ignition switch there are two plugs. According to the wiring diagram it shows one plug with 3 wires one plug with four both plugs should have a red wire that is 12 volts. Using a test light or a dvom check both Even though we are really only concerned with the plug with 4 wires. Does it have 12 volts or test light illuminates? If no problem is between switch and fuse block. If yes you do have power then with the plug back in the switch probe the backside of the plug to the white wire with purple strip ( color may be different I am looking at wiring diagram and been a while since I have looked at mine on car but it’s beside red wire see photograph)

 

now turn the key to crank position do you have power coming through switch. If no possible switch but before you replace remove switch from column take a small pick or something put in the hole where rod was connected and pull upward what would be towards steering wheel all the way now do you have 12 volts while holding key in crank position.If yes then go to neutral safety switch turn key do you have power to the same color wire we just checked at ignition switch when key is turned or you pull back on switch? If no there is a problem between ignition switch and the neutral safety swith. If you do have power check the purple wire on the other side of neutral safety switch see attached picture 

 

If no there is a problem with neutral safety switch. If yes you do have 12 volts through neutral safety switch then get under car have someone turn key or pull back on ignition switch do you have 12 volts to the S pole on starter solenoid. If yes the problem is in the starter. If no 12 volts to S pole problem is between neutral safety switch and solenoid. See picture below

I hope this helps you it took me forever to type it out. Good luck if you have questions PM me and I will give my number to call me 

[klassic rob]

thank you, i noticed i still have the resistance wire connected to the R terminal. im running HEI and have been, just trying to remember if i had this intermittent issue

before car went in storage. could that be an issue? 2001 hei was installed replaced rotor and cap not to long ago.

[GRAY 70 Monte Carlo]

R pole really don’t have anything to do with the cranking of the engine. It would have more to do with the starting of the engine. If I have understood your problem it’s that the car isn’t cranking is that correct