mc71454

June 24, 2007

A post I made on TC after dyno testing spacers

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181133

June 24, 2007

Cool, that's what I thought. But what does shifting while doing a burnoff do though, I haven't heard that one before. I'm guilty of that on occasion, although usually not with slicks!

While I am not a trans expert, basically when you shift from 1st to 2nd, the direction of the rotating drum changes instantly and the sprag is what takes the brunt of the load. From what I have been told it is the No-Load action of the burnout that makes this a problem when it is not a problem when accelerating with a load on the trans. Always start in 2nd gear shifting from 2nd to 3rd is OK.

Hope this clears it up..Have a good one !

June 23, 2007

Let out as in when you are moving forward so the rpm's come down as you move forward. Don't let it grab and jerk the car.

June 23, 2007

I run a 36 element Sprag and Drum in mine. The parts alone ar e$600 to $700. I do not think most Montes under 800 HP will need more than a 34 element Sprag. Just make sure your burnout procedure is correct by starting in 2nd gear and NEVER Shift from first to second while doing a burnout. When the car starts to grip and roll forward let out of it immediately.

I just installed an Ultra-Bell on my trans after cracking the case at 130 mph a few weeks ago.

January 27, 2007

I personally only use Mark Williams components.

I have never seen or heard of breakage or spline twisting with Mark Williams. They make a Masterline series good to 9.90's for $320 a set. Ran 30 spline axles in my Monte until the end of 2006. They have 900+ passes on them from 12's to low 10's.

I just went to 35 spline setup since I plan to put it into the 9's.

The 30 splines are going into my chevelle this winter.

November 11, 2006

I used the Chevelle Kit from S&W 6 years ago. I could not afford the completely fabricated ones I see at car shows at the time. They are typically $2500 to $3500 now for a cage. Mine does the job was TIG welded with swing out bars on both doors.

September 15, 2006

Hmmmm.... All in by 2k? I am not set up that way, but may try it. Also, the lower the compression, the more timing a motor generally likes correct? I am just looking for little tweaks to squeezze out whatever there is potential for. Will it matter if you move your full in advance from 3k to 2k if your stall is around 3k? I currently run 17 initial, 38 full at 3k, only mechanical advance. Iron head 454 with 8.75 compression, 3.55 gears with a ~2800 converter. Any thoughts or recommendations? Don? Tom? Bueller, Bueller, Bueller?

It will depend where you leave the line...I leave at 1200 RPM and my timing when set on "kill" is all in by 1500 RPM, so it is virtually instantaneous.

It will help your 60 ft times and therefore your ET....

.....and you doesn't have to call me Johnson !

I guess I dated myself with that one...LOL

September 14, 2006

Tom,

Sorry for calling you Mike. Don't know why I did. Could be a senior moment.

David

LOL....I do it all the time Jim

September 13, 2006

Mike

Would I still leave my intial @ 19 degrees? The light set up would mean my total would come in much faster, right? Thanks for your help. BTW, have you gotten your racepump installed?

Wallaby,

From what I understand you get excellent throttle response and clean idle from a locked out dizzy and 36-38 degrees seems to be the magic number.

David

Set your initial by what you get at total. I am assuming you have a timing Tape installed on your balancer (Summits own brand is the best).

Turn your distributor to the desired total timing and as long as the initial is reasonable (up to 20 degrees) you are all set. The timing will advance to the max instantly. When the race track traction is marginal, I will install the second spring (medium)to slow down the advance on the initial tire hit. (I leave at 1200 RPM)

BBC's usually like 34 to 38 total and all in by 2000 RPM, BUT it depends a lot on your cylinder heads. When running my Canfields my motor liked 38 degrees, the switch to AFR's this year I have found 35 to be the best ET and MPH wise. It has to do with cylinder head efficiency and flame travel in the chamber. I was happy as the 3 degrees gives me a little more safety cushion when I fill up at the convenient store

No Race Pump yet, used up that spare time selling my GN and buying the chevelle. I have a track rental at the end of the month, should have it on by then.

Thanks for asking...

Tom

September 13, 2006

Just put on one light spring for one weight and "e" clip the other weight with no spring. You'll have all the timing in the instant you blip the throttle and be able to start it very close to your initial timing setting It will be easier on your starter and battery and fywheel/flex plate.

Grind your weights or flip over the center piece between the weights to change the total.

August 23, 2006

Wallaby,

Very Good question, nothing stupid about it. I agree with Don as in you really must set a realistic goal whether it is stop light to stop light a specific ET or MPH at the track or just a reliable cruiser that you'll just break the tires loose a few times.

Let's just consider street/strip combinations so there are a few Fixed items that will come into play such as exhaust that Don mentioned and a cruising RPM is in the picture early as well. A combination built for specifics can be accomplished many ways it is just the matter of the owners or customers realistic preferences. So the up front Realistic expectations are critical.

Right off the bat you have exhaust and rear gear and tire size, these seem to be the most popular Fixed elements behind motor size. So after these items are decided you can get to work on what internal parts, carb, intake, converter, etc. will reach your goal.

Can you expand on your entire combination it's performance and what your goal or goals are ???

August 22, 2006

Tom, I do fully understand that you are not (component) wise maxed out. Thats why I stated that you have tuned the combo of parts you now have to the point of it's ability. Any more big gains would require parts changes to the combo.

Don

Thanks Don,

I figured you probably knew that, I wrote most of that for others to read who may be just starting out or thinking of some significant performance upgrades..

The importance of tuning your combo is so often overlooked and too many people just throw parts at their cars and hope for the best...

Thanks for the post..

Tom

August 22, 2006

Look at MC71454 (tom) as a reference, quessing at a 3500# weight his et would require in the neighborhood of 600hp at the wheels and 650/675 at the fly wheel depending on the drivetrain losses. Thats 1.2/1.25 Hp per cube, thats good for a homebuilt combo.

Not belittling anyone here, Tom is a master tuner, he has tweaked and tuned just about everthing he could get from his combo. Tuning ability is a must on any combo, if you can't tune it then it won't perform to it's best capability!

Don

Don,

Thanks for the kudo's on the the tuning. However, master tuner is a bit of a stretch..LOL..

what I think you may need to understand is that my motor and combination is far from optimized...and is anemic in a few areas.

It is:

1. Under carbed

2. Under cammed by .100" in lift - both intake and exhaust, yes 0.100"

3. Under cammed by 10 to 12 degrees in int dur

4. Under cammed by 8 to 10 degrees in ex dur

5. Under geared

6 Under convertered

7. Weighs 3950 pounds at race weight with driver

I now have heads that can support more cam, I now have heads that need more carb and will need even more carb when I change the cam to match the heads. Once I change the cam I will change the converter and then I can change the gear to help with the cam on the lower RPM end and to have enough RPM on the top end to take advantage of the heads and the cam....etc...

Until I upgraded my heads in 2006, my combination was Designed to run easy 11.00's in a Street Legal Class in 2004 and to be the fastest car in the class. I had to slow it down from 10.70's to 11.0's. It worked out pretty well as I ended up second in Points (Due to the my second broken transmission that summer with the second one in the last week of points. But I went to the NHRA bracket Finals as top qualifier in DOT class since I was first in points the weeks before.

So my set of parameters is completely intentional, planned, and above all realized.

The class has been changed to an 11.50 cutoff and I am not competing with the car in that class . So what the heck let's methodically improve the combination...One could call it tuning, but not in the sense that one may picture like setting the timing or adjusting the idle mixture.

I believe you can get so much more knowledge and satisfaction by moving your ET and MPH quicker and quicker by improving your combination as you go and that is the approach I have been taking with this car. I think many of us here do that.

Does this sound familiar to anyone ???

"13's and then I'll stop...well I think I would like to go 12's..maybe then 11's in a couple of years and it never ends for some of us. Some people like to go for it all in the first shot and that's OK too. Having a motor built and a combination designed to handle 1.5+ HP per CI normally aspirated lends itself to streetability, durability, and maintenance issues that many don't have the time or resources to contend with.

I assure you I could build a motor that approaches 1.5 hp per CI in my back garage but that wouldn't suit my needs for what I do with this car right now, (emphasize the right now)plus it's so dam heavy I would get tired of replacing drivetrain parts in the short term...LOL....

My car started out in the 14's and it has been a great experience and wealth of knowledge earned.

Anyway, nothing argumentive intended just thought I needed to add a little background to what I have done and why..

Have a good one...

Tom

August 21, 2006

I keep hearing the Mickey Thompson drag radial is best right now. I myself will try them for my street tire when my current ones wear out.

The one draw back is on the street when you go to do a rolling burnout (to show off) these type of tires hook-up so it appears to every one that you don`t have as much power .

....Except if your front tires come off the ground

August 21, 2006

Post your MPH in the 1/4 or 1/8 and I can tell you what ET you could expect from a drag tire..

August 21, 2006

Here is my timeslip data...

My 1.57 60 ft. was a mistake or I can`t find that one timeslip, either way it wasn`t on my two 11 second runs.

60 ft. ---- 1.640

330 ft. --- 4.853

1/8 ET ---- 7.606

1/8 MPH --- 89.10

1000' ET -- 9.951

1/4 ET ---- 11.959

1/4 MPH --- 112.20

The other 11 second was almost exact as above.

The low 1.6x 60 foot sounds about right, the 1.57 is in the high 10 area..your incrementals are right in line with only a slightly less than typical mph increase...

typically 1.58 x the 1/8 mile = 1/4 mile ET. cars our size and shape Normally aspirated will pick up 23.5 to 25 mph from the 8th to the 1/4...you are at a 23 mph increase..

I would try knocking 2 degrees of total timing out of it and trying that. Also look into trying a 1/2 or 1" open spacer.

August 21, 2006

Sorry so long getting back, I lost track of this post..

On the RPM intake, it is merely a matter of closely matching the head ports and the gaskets and leaving the manifold ports very very close to being a little smaller than the heads. This helps in reducing reversion. The combinations that run an RPM into the 10's are very narrow banded torque curve motors with 106/107 LSA, lots of lift and mild duration (relatively speaking).

I use a Victor Jr. right now, that is port and gasket matched to my heads and then carefully aligned front to back once the manifold bolts are in finger tight..Then once aligned I torque it down.

If you have a 468 an RPM is worth some testing, I can tell you that the driveability on the street is way better betweent the RPM and VJ.

My Car with driver is 3950 pounds as it rolls down the track, weighed it 3 weeks ago and 4 weeks ago at Maple Grove and New England Dragway.

August 13, 2006

Congrats on reaching the 11's. I was running 11.30's with an RPM Intake (non-airgap) with a 468 motor and 3.55 gears on 93 gas.

After doing very careful testing over several months and track rental days between a Vic Jr. and the RPM, the RPM with a 1" open spacer was the quickest ET wise and was a far cry better for street driveability.

There many many cars under 540 CI that run RPM intakes into the low 10's.

If you post up your timeslip data, I could analyze it and give an opinion if you are interested.

Again, Congrats !!!!!

July 12, 2006

Sorry to hijack the thread, but best with my monte is 12.5 @ 109.

What should be next on the list to add some more power besides supercharging and nitrous since I was to keep all motor?

My combo list is 454 gen.6 full roller BB., 9.5/1 compression, speed pro. rings, balanced and blue printed, 502 GM aluminum heads, demon 750 double pumper, msd 6AL, msd wires, msd distributor, 120 gph mechanical fuel pump, still has the stock 510 - 540 lift cam the motor was made with, turbo 400 w/ 2000 stall, ford 9" rear w/ 350 gears and a detroit locker, and when I ran my run it was on my S-rated street tires. Slicks is a given but what else would really help? Cam time?

Ok, so your ET and mph do not match right on, I will say you are leaving 0.3 in ET on the table and .5 to 1 mph, your mph normally aspirated indicates a 12.20 to low 12.30 ET.

Adding something now to add power will not achieve anything as you have not optimized your current setup with the parts you have. You have answered your own question with the slicks or DOT slicks. Once you have those you will be able to tune your 60 ft.

What you need to do is Tune your 60 FT. and the 60 ft Only. When you tune your 60 ft the ET will take care of itself.

Hopefully this can be a quote of the week..

New Ignition System - $600

Roller Cam Setup - $1200

9" Rear - $2300

..........Tuning your 60 foot - PRICELESS

All joking aside - you have an excellent combination there...

....But you will need the tires to do any 60 foot tuning which will include the accelerator pump and timing adjustments and the shock nut trick.

If you like to plan ahead...here it is.

A 3600 9" converter will be the next ticket to test your traction..and pick you up 0.15 to 0.2 in ET.

Next, After that I am pretty sure your suspension will be the limiting factor..

This info is tried and true and NOT based on any magazines or hearsay and Will Work without throwing parts at the car.

CAM Timing - I did extensive testing last year with Cam Timing from 5* retarded to straight up to 7* advanced. I have one of those Cloyes Hex-adjusts so it was pretty easy to change. The result was no noticeable difference in ET, only a possible mph increase from 5 advanced to 5 retarded BUT my data did convince me enough to report it as fact. Bottom Line - set it up as per the manufacturers recommendation around 3 to 5 advanced and leave it at that.

Hope this is helpful..

July 11, 2006

I have to take my son to football camp in a few minutes but will check out your combo tonight and see what you can do for the cheap. I have a some tricks and tuning tips to share.

Tom

July 9, 2006

Don,

I'll get some info together and send the cam specs. I am on vacation in Maine until Monday night...Will send a day after I get home

6.385 Rod

Callies Dragonslayer Crank

SRP Forged Aluminum with 10cc Dome

Approximate Cam - 295/305, 266/271 @ .050, .765/.745 lift on a 112 LSA, installed at 107

July 8, 2006

Thanks Don

For those who may be interested...

I've been at it a few years just picking away at ET. The key is to not just throw parts at a car and to learn by taking whatever combination you have whether it runs 15's or 10's and maximize that combination. Then move into the next level you are comfortable.

A plan that is patient keeps it fun, but the most important thing is the knowledge you gain and the great people you meet along the way.

When you fine tune a combination over 2 years you learn first hand how all the parts work together and how they compliment each other...I cannot stress this enough to people just getting into performance street vehicles...especially those who seek to do it normally aspirated.

Here is/was how my 10 year plan has evolved only looking ahead about 2 years at the most.

Step 1 - 8 years ago I started with a 12.99 goal with 3.55's and mild 454 motor...hit 12.65

Step 2 - 5 years ago, 468 motor - solid roller 3.55's - Goal was 11.50's - hit 11.36

Step 3 - 3 years ago - 3.42's, 540" motor, 10:1 Canfield out of the box heads - Goal was 10.50's - Hit 10.65's

Step 4 - 2006 - Professionally Worked AFR heads, Custom 1025+ CFM Modified HP1000, 3.73 gears (getting crazy now ) - Goal 10.20's, 130 mph - Almost there...

2007 - removing, hiding, modifying everything that hints it is a low 10 sec car. New Paint and trim. Car is original paint still. More fine tuning - Goal 10.1x's

Step 5 - 2008 - 4.10 gears in a Strange S-60 (Dana 60 Rear) I am at the limit of the 12-bolt with the weight of the car

Still NO power adders, new cam (already have it designed ) 8" converter with the same 4400 Stall)Fully CNC'd Intake to match heads, Hooker Super Comp headers with ceramic coat 2 1/8 primary. --

Goal 9.90 at 133 mph. Car will still be just as streetable and run 92 octane with no race gas.

Sorry for the blabber just thought I would share how I set realistic goals and tuned and tuned until I reached them. Don't just throw parts at the cars to go fast (except Nitrous works pretty well I have seen)

July 7, 2006

Man, that is an excellent time for that heavy a car, with those gears etc!!! Any power adders? Can you give us a quick rundown of your combo? If there was a smiley on her for Holy @#$% that's awesome, I'd put it here!

Thanks...no power adders, but thanks !!

Merlin II block 4.500 bore, 4.25 stroke (540")

Home Built not a crate motor

AFR Fully CNC'd 335 CC Heads, 110 CC Chamber

10.8:1

Solid Roller 252/260 & .680/.680 lift with a 112 lobe separation installed at 107

Victor JR Intake

GM HEI 35 degrees total timing

Pro-Systems 1000 CFM Holley HP Carb

1/2" 4-hole spacer

Hooker 2" primary tube Competition Headers ($140)

3" Torque Tech/Dynomax mufflers through tailpipes and SS tips

Chevy 12-bolt with Mark Williams axles C-clip eliminators

Powertrax Lock Right Locker

3.73 gears

Dick Miller no-hop bars and upper and lower control arms. QA-1 Rear Shocks, stock coil springs and air bags

Dynamic Transmissions - Pro-Mod TH400

Forward Manual Valve Body

Trans Specialties 9" Converter 4400 Flash RPM

Front Springs - 6 Cylinder Malibu and KYB Gas shocks.

Dennys Driveshaft with 1350 joints

Weld Prostars with Hoosier QT Pro in the rear 28/13.50/15 (just fit) and Cooper steel belted radials in the front 205/70/15.

6 point cage

All steel except for hinge type cowl hood and front bumper.

Aluminum Radiator with dual 12" Fans

Mallory Comp 140 Fuel Pump

July 6, 2006

10.31 @ 129.86 mph yesterday....

June 15, 2006

I still can't view them and I need my fix

Try to right click and then click "save target as" it should download fine..If that doesn't work I can E-mail them to you.

Profiles

Articles

Forums

Gallery

Events

Posts posted by mc71454