sredmyer

I looked at an '70 SS the other day which was supposed to be all original, unmolested. Something about the dash instrument cluster just didn't look right to me. I couldn't make up my mind while I was looking at it what it was but after thinking about it for a while I think the problem was the clock...the second hand had a "sweep" motion (moved smoothly) as opposed to a "tick" motion (jump each second). Can anyone tell me if the OEM clock has a "sweep" second hand or if it "ticks".

WOW! That is super cool. Congratulations!

I have had this happen before due to a lose hot wire on the starter. Check the connection of the battery lead on the solenoid to be sure it is tight.

Sorry, I have no idea how one goes about determining if it is real or not. I simply don't think I would know a fake tag if it walked up and smacked me.

I am referring to the cowl or trim tag...not the VIN tag. As far as I know it is illegal to alter or reproduce a VIN tag.

So I was reading a thread on a Camaro forum where they were talking about repro cowl tags. The guy who started the thread was trying to figure out whether the tag on his car was real or not. After a few posts the thread devolved into a pretty heated debate over whether or not the practice of using repro (fake) tags was damaging the hobby or not. On the one side were the purist who felt that even if the repro tag contained the same information as the original it was just wrong to replace it. On the other side were folks who felt that the repros were ok. Some even thought it was ok to make changes to the tag (interior or exterior color, bench or bucket seats, etc.) so that the car could be made what the owner wanted. I am not really sure how I feel about it. I do think that just reproducing the original (no changes) is no different than using any other reproduced part. I think I would also be alright with changing things like color and such that don't really change the value of the car. I would however, draw the line at making changes to the tag information when it is done solely to increase the value of the car. For example, adding the Z20 code to a Canadian built cowl tag would definitely, in my view, be wrong. That said, changes such as that could easily be discovered so there wouldn't be much point to doing it. I am curious what folks here think about it

Not to hijack the thread but... I have been reading the forum for several weeks now and am just amazed by the number (and quality) of photo journals MCFan (Dennis) has made. I am sure others have made some as well but there does not appear to be any easy way to find information like this when it exists. It seems to me that these types of things are a gold mine of information. It would be awesome if there were some way to add a wiki type area on the site where folks could go and easily search for tutorials put together by other members of projects they have done. I realize it might take a bit of work to manage but it would be nice if there were a mechanism for submitting a write-up for consideration then once approved, the write-up could be given an easily searchable title and some appropriate tags (to aid in searching) then added to the wiki. Just a thought.

So how can one tell if a Flint car is a real SS or not? Since they did not come with build sheets, what other way is there to tell? I know there is badging specific to the SS but as you mentioned that could relatively easily be done to a non SS car. There are also a few parts on the SS not found on other versions but I suspect if one was so inclined they could find those parts and put them on. Now for all intents and purposes they have an SS but was not born an SS. How can one figure that situation out? BTW, I called the guy in AZ and he said he done many inspections on cars at Barrett-Jackson but had never done a proxy bid for anyone. He said he is very familiar with the management there and would look into whether or not it is something he could do. Steve

Yep that is the one. What do you think of the statement "undocumented"? I just figured that meant there was no build sheet so no paperwork to prove it is a SS454. It is a Flint manufactured car though so not having a build sheet would be expected. Holy crap that other thing sure is ugly. I wonder what the concept was? I can't imagine that anybody actually would think that thing is something they would want in their garage.

WOW thanks Rob. I didn't even think about using an inspector/appraiser (which is a bit odd considering I have used two in the extreme recent past on this search) from the area

Has anyone ever bought a car from a Barrett-Jackson auction? I found a car I really like that will be auctioned at the Scottsdale AZ Barrett-Jackson auction in January. Problem is I have never bought a car this way. The description given in the auction listing is very brief and there aren't many pictures. Does anyone know if there is someway to get more details about the car? Can you hire a proxy to inspect the car, report back and bid if necessary? I just don't see anyway I could put together a trip to AZ on such short notice.

Well the seller called me back. He was very nice and apologetic of the fact we were not able to reach a deal. He knew I had money invested in the inspection/appraisal and hated that it was for naught. As I say I shared the appraisal report (which was quite detailed) with him and he agreed with nearly everything in it but did not agree with the price. Even more of an issue for him was that he did not really need to sell and he knew he could not buy another one (assuming he could find one) and he certainly could not restore one for the amount he is asking. At this point I do not think he would sell even if I were to match his ask. The search continues.

Well, the inspection/appraisal are complete. The inspection came out pretty much as the seller indicated...that the car is very clean (though not perfect) and mechanically strong. Unfortunately the inspector was not able to verify that the car was numbers matching but said that wouldn't impact price much anyway. The appraisal came in much lower than I expected at $14,400. That is a long way from the $21,700 the seller is asking. As I say the appraisal seems a bit low to me and the sellers asking price seems a bit high. I decided that because this car is exactly (color, options, etc.) what I am looking for I would offer the seller $17,500.00...he declined without making a counter. So it seems like I will have to keep looking If anyone knows of a 1970 big block in Cortez silver with the vinyl top and the bucket seats with the console, please let me know. Steve

I think the first generation Montes were inspired by the Pontiac Grand Prix (Chevy's answer to the Grand Prix) but they were based on the Chevelle.

I completely agree. I was just thinking that since the car appears to be (inspection will tell for sure) an original numbers matching car, I might not want to add things (like power door locks, cruise control, etc) that might negatively impact its "originality". However, if there is no way to know that the car did not come with those things from the factory and I use all period correct OEM parts to do it, I would think it would not negatively impact its value.

So I am still waiting on the inspection (due to happen this Friday) and am trying to learn more about this car while waiting. At this point all I have is the VIN. I am waiting on a picture of the cowl tag but haven't gotten that yet. What I know from the VIN is that this is a Flint car. From my reading here on the forum, I gather that means there will be no build sheet for this car (the owner confirms he does not have one). So my question is, is there anyway to know what options this car had from the factory? As always, thanks for your insight, Steve

I don't have any pictures (wish I did) but my first car was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. I was 14 and couldn't yet drive but I bought the car, which was pretty much junk, with money I had saved from mowing grass and delivering papers. I had hoped my dad and I could fix it up for when I could drive. Unfortunately, the car was to far gone and it turns out my father was not capable of performing miracles like I had thought . So the first car I had that I could actually drive was a 1970 Monte Carlo. It was silver with a black vinyl top, had the bucket seats with the floor shifter and the big block (402). I just recently started a search to find a restored or restorable version of that car and have found one that I hope to have in my garage in the next few days at which point I will have pictures

That's a good point. If I remember correctly I added aftermarket speakers to the car I had in HS and ended up burning out the radio. I think most aftermarket speakers are 8 ohm but the factory ones were 10 (I think). A switched setup was probably not a realistic idea any way

Wish I had pictures of my first car (a 1970 MC). Unfortunately when I was younger I was not a very sentimental person and (it now seems) nothing mattered much to me. Now, a man in my fifties, I am trying to find that same car (well a twin...not the same exact car) so that I can recapture some of the youth I let escape without paying proper attention. I know it is true what they say that you can never go back but I certainly hope I can at least relive some of the memories with a bit more reverence.

Thanks MCFan. I am very excited about this car. The inspection is scheduled for next Friday and assuming the car is what the seller says it is I suspect it will be in my garage soon. I like the idea of a keyless entry system. Would that be practical on a car without power locks? Can you share a link to some kits that would work on this car. Steve

I really appreciate all the advice on the price. I tried to get a "book" value from Hagerty's and NADA and both put the asking price near the top of the value range. Unfortunately neither does a very good job of enumerating the features so I am not sure how much weight to give that valuation. I completely agree with what someone (I think it was Rob) has said about the car being worth whatever we (the seller and I) come to agree on. However, I am trying to balance my mid-life crisis (that's what my wife is calling this) with practicality. That means I must attempt to buy the car at a price that allows it to be an investment at some level. That's good to know about the dash. I assumed I would just be able to replace the glove box...did not realize it was integral to the dash. That said I was kind of thinking I may need to do something like that to repair the hole created by the bolt that is used to mount the gauge cluster. On the CD player specifically, I was hoping I could figure a way to keep both the OEM radio and the aftermarket one. Ideally, there would be a switch somewhere to switch between them. I think my problem is going to be trying to strike a balance between matching this car to the one I had in HS and trying not to damage the originality value of the car.

Yeah compared to today's music play back devices 8-tracks do kinda suck but I have fond memories of parking with a girl listening to Boston and hearing the thing thunk through the tracks. Or driving from central IN to Atlanta to visit family and listening to the Strikes tape by Blackfoot. The song of coarse, was "Highway Song". A big part of this purchase, for me, is to recapture a bit of my youth so realism is important.

Well the date for the inspection is set for next Friday (earliest the owner and inspector could get together). The more I look at this car there are a couple of options I had in the car I had in HS that I may want to add to this one(assuming I get it of coarse). Can anyone give me an idea of how hard it would be to add factory cruise control? Are the parts hard to find? I think I will also try to find an old factory AM/FM 8-Track stereo for it. I still have all of my old tapes and think it would be awesome to be riding around in that car listening to my old favorites. Steve

Thanks guys. I have hired an inspector/appraiser to look the car over for me. He is supposed to verify the numbers and do a thorough (150+ point) physical inspection of all aspects of the car. He will also provide me with a "certified" (whatever that means) appraisal. I am not sure what to make of the certified appraisal value. Not sure if that will wind up being like MSRP (which nobody actually pays) or something more realistic. Assuming this car is what it appears to be, a numbers matching, clean nicely optioned big block car, what is a good price? I am super stoked about this car as it is just what I am looking for color, options and it looks to be in really good shape. Steve

Ok guys. I think I found THE car and would love to hear what you all think of this car. https://classiccars.com/listings/view/692127/1970-chevrolet-monte-carlo-for-sale-in-saint-louis-missouri-63128 Oh yeah and now that I understand what "numbers matching" means, how important is that to the value of the car? Steve