Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 OK. I've got an oil leak I can't find. I originally thought that it was the valve cover gasket so I changed it, no difference. I figure I've lost about 2 tablespoons of oil today in about 14 miles. The starter and oil pan are dripping with oil. The flywheel is completely dry. I've looked up from underneath the vehicle to the rear of the valve cover where it meets the head and its not very wet. As addition info, I recently attempted to change motor mounts and I used a floor jack on the oil pan. Is there somewhere just above the starter where oil could be coming from? I'm starting to think it's the front main seal and its just going backwards as I drive. Thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Allen, I'm baffled. Starter dripping with oil so I'm assuming that the drivers side of the engine is dry? In the front of the block down by the fuel pump there is a bolt. All by itself. Make sure it's not leaking. I forgot to install this bolt on an engine I rebiult one time and it had been plugged up with old oil and grime and finally blew it out and shot oil all over the engine. This hole goes all the way through to the fuel pump push rod and see's alot of oil.Thats why the bolts there. This is also a guess, but when you lift the engine by the oilpan could you have crushed the oilpan gaskets? Maybe split it somewhere? Other than that you might want to check out your oil pressure sender on the top back of the block and the distributor gasket. Just some suggestions. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Make sure the engine is vented properly or it will push oil out of places you cant see. Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Quote: <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dolfan:Make sure the engine is vented properly or it will push oil out of places you cant see. Fred.</font> My BB was leaking oil everywhere. Front seal blew out. Got smart and added a oil pan vent. Oil leaks stopped except for the recent discovery that oil is leaking out one of my sending units screwed in at the main oil gallery in the filter area. I will get to this before I start driving it. To many other things I'm working on with paint prep etc. ------------------ George Lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 The driver side of the block looks the same, dirty. I'll check the bolt you mentioned by the fuel pump and since I lifted the engine I could have cracked the oil sending unit but I think I would have cracked the distributor first. My best guess right now is the oil pan gasket or front seal or both. Is it possible to replace the front and rear seals with the engine in the car? Or am I asking for more trouble? Thanks for all the info, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 This will sound kinda silly, but there is an easy way to pin point that leak! get a large container of baby powder and spray it on the the engine from the underside coat it good. start her up and you will see it as fresh tracks of oil and can follow it back to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Rice, Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try and let everyone know how it worked. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Yeh I'm curious aboout where it's comming from. As far as the oilpan gasket set (that includes the front and rear seal)It looked to me that you would have enough room to change them out with the engine in the car with little problems. Now I've not tried this on our cars but I have gotten under my new engine to snug up some bolts with absolutley no problem. It looks to have plenty of room between the pan and crossmember. How many miles on the engine? Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Jon, the engine has 131k on it and it runs great but looks like hell. The accumulation of grime is about 1/4" thick in places. I'm pretty sure there's one rocker thats knocking. I've often thought about pulling the engine but then the car will be down and out for a long time. Last time I did something like that the car stayed in my garage for 15 years. I want to do the minimum amount necessary to keep it driving until I've got enough money to do a rebuild. I've had the car since November and there are a couple of things I've got to do to keep it driving. If I pull the motor then I'll be tempted to do the transmission which will lead to the rear end (I want posi), which will lead to... and so on and so on and so on. Thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Look at my web page lol this started out as a cam!!!!! ------------------ http://home.earthlink.net/~fadams6969/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Allen, I know how it is on a limited budget. It took me several months to decide on what parts to purchase and what direction I wanted to go and the direction that my money would allow me to go at the time. I'm still going to "stair step" my way up with the current engine, new heads ect. I did'nt know how far away that you were from getting the engine rebuilt. 131k is'nt all that much. My engine was much like yours is now. It was'nt much to look at but it ran extremely well. I hated to tare it down but it's out now and I'll just rebiuld it alittle at a time. Did you figure out where your leak is? I have'nt thought of any other possabilities. I';m going to have to pull the pan off on mine. I have a leak around the rear pan seal. It's driving me nuts! I have a finned aluminum pan and hate to let it get all grimmy. I'll let you know what it's like changing the oilpan gaskets sometime soon. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I haven't found the oil leak yet because I got sidetracked by a fuel line problem. Looks like you might get to the oil pan first. Look for a post from me about fuel lines. I did check for that bolt you mentioned and it is in there. Anyways, I'm still tempted to pull the motor because it looks like changing the gaskets/seals is going to be a real bear from underneath. I read in a manual that you can change the upper seals as well without removing the main crank caps. I'm not so sure about that approach. Anybody out there try it yet? Thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I didn't need to do the baby powder thing. I wiped off the lowest point on the oil pan where it was dripping from and the path pointed to the rear of the pan. After closer inspection of that area there's no doubt that either the gasket or the seal is bad. HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY It looks like I'll attempt the changing of the gaskets and seals from underneath. Worst case is that I'll have to pull the motor. Wish me luck. Jon, I just might beat you to the punch on the oil pan thing. Thanks to all for the info. Look for my next post to be about oil pan seal/gasket repair and how your better off to just keep adding oil. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Allen, Do you have an Orielly's Auto Parts near you? They have a tool called"Sneaky Pete". I believe it's the tool you will need for the rear main seal change. As far as the oilpan gaskets go, it looked to me like it would'nt be to much of a problem. I'd locate that tool and follow the directions to the "T". It does'nt look that difficult. I remember a mechanic doing this at the dealership that I worked at after high school. By the way I never asked but what color is the oil? Make sure it's not tranny fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Jon, Is the "Sneaky Pete" kind of like a flat thin piece of metal (.004 thick) and one end is cut thinner? There's a tool like that described in my Haynes manual. By the way, if you remove the oil pan, don't you also have to change the front seal also? The manual doesn't say one way or the other. Thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Had another thought (that'll be two in the same day). Maybe its just the pan seal and not the rear main bearing seal. I say that because I was lifting the engine by the pan so should only the pan seal be suspect? Whatta think? Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 With that many miles on it, if you are going to the trouble to remove the pan to change out a leaking gasket, then you should also change out the rear main seal. At least thats how I think when I'm doing something like that. You have to remove the belts, pulleys and dampner to change out the front crank seal. That can be done at any time illrevilent to removing the pan. ------------------ George Lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Allen, george has a good point, if you have the oil pan off now you might as well change the main seal out. I'm going up tomorrow to buy a Sneaky Pete tool and try it out on my 350 I have out of my car now. Don't try it yet. That way I can give you first hand experience on this. I have been wanting that sucker since I seen it. I like to collect strange tools. The Sneaky Pete tool is nothing more than a braided wire with a handle on one end and a small piece at the other. You push the old seal out and then fish the wire up and through the empty cavity and back down and out the other side. then you start the new seal into the cavity and start to pull the wire and small piece back through to the other side. I guess what happens is the small piece at the other end of the wire catches the seal somehow and helps pull the new seal up and into the cavity. I'll find out tomorrow. I aint got nothin else to do. I'll give you a thumbs up or down on if you would want to try this. The tool your looking at in the manual( I have a Haynes manual also) is I believe the plastic strip that go's in between the new seal and the block to prevent scarring the backside of the seal when installing the two pieces into the block. I just noticed that they say it's shimm stock but the one you get with a new seal will be a piece of blue plastic that has the exact same shape. As far as the oilpan gasket front and rear seal. You will need to replace both the front and rear rubber seals when you drop the pan. When you get the oilpan gasket set, it should have both the front and rear seal along with the pan rail seals that are cork material. It may or maynot come with a timing cover "O" ring seal for the crank snout, but thats another issue there. You have to have the timing cover off the replace that one no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Yesterday I decided I would try to do the oil pan gaskets AND rear main seal. I bought the parts and got the little blue plastic thing (they call it a shoehorn) with the seal. Anyway, the motors up and I'm ready to remove the oil pan today. Let me know how your "Sneaky Pete" thing works out. Otherwise, I'll be looking for a brass punch. Good Luck, Allen p.s. Almost forgot, the front oil pan seal was pushed out which was also part of the problem. In the future I'm going to recommend always lifting the engine with a hoist. Lesson learned for me anyway. [This message has been edited by Allen Tuthill (edited 03-03-2002).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Well, the sneaky pete did'nt work on these rear main seals. It looks to be for a solid type of seal more like a packing seal of sorts. I did try to install the rear main seal without taking the crank out. It went pretty smooth. I would suggest soft wood of some type when re-installing the seal so that you don't damage the end of the seal that your pushing on. I used a medium sized flat bladed screw driver to push to old one out. and by all means, use the shoe horn plastic tool they include when installing the new seal. Those seals are very fragile and tare and rip easy. You should'nt have any problem. I sat the new seal onto the crank shaft flush and started it into the slot between the crank and block. Make sure youo puting it in the correct way. Then I just slid the main seal on around the crank until it was all the way in. Pretty easy and straight forward. don't try to straighten the seal out to install it. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 How's it going Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 You may have damaged your oil pan. It may be distorted from the floor jack I would suggest that if this oil leak started right after that then you get a new oil pan and replace it. Good chance it will leak again for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex's72fgmc Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 one good note to remember is that when puting in the rear main seal make sure that the halfs are not flush with the cap and block otherwise oil wil go right by it also find a good sealer to put around that section make sure not to put to much otherwise your bearing will not crush properly any question e-mail me allen. ohh on the pan if it is dented from lifting up on it see if a small hammer may straighten it out otherwise replace it.... chrome is good ....lol hope this helps alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Also, while you have the pan off, you must be sure that it is totally flat on the gasket surface. When the original pan bolts are installed, it is not unusual for the pan to get dented around the holes. It is not hard to flatten it out, just hang the lip on your bench and work your way around with a small hammer hitting it just hard enough around the holes to accomplish the job. It should be reasonably straight when done. You must do this or it probably will leak around the new gaskets. Also you can use a light coating of oil proof silicone on the clean block and stick your gasket to it before repacing the pan. ------------------ George Lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Hey guys! Thanks for all the info. The pans off and I've got a confirmed 4-bolt main 350. COOL! I wasn't sure because I had the block number (3970010) that couldv'e gone either way. Anyway, this week is pretty much shot because I've got a lot of overtime to work so I probably won't get much done till Saturday. I'll keep you all posted. I bought some Black Permatex for the valve cover gasket so I figure on using the same stuff for the oil pan. Thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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