Guest Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I am new to the forum, but it has been a wealth of info so far. I was a Monte Carlo Owner in the past. 70 350/300hp Autumn Gold with vinyl top, cloth bench seat. My first car. I am currently looking at a 70SS. A lot of the details are adding up except for the engine it is a 454 LS-5 T1205CRN no other numbers follow. I understand Tonawanda December 5. Owner claims it is original he only rebuilt the engine. He purchased the car from the original owner.I have had him check near the oil filter but he says he finds no markings at all. Any chance this block was not stamped at installation. If so how would this affect the value of the Car as an original? Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Steve,, For what it's worth..I've heard/read that it was not uncommon for the VIN not to get stamped in that location along with the numbers you've listed. But that it may also be stamped on the block above the oil filter as you've stated. If the seller has the build sheet, the upper left hand corner will indicate the unit number produced and the production date. maybe with that info you can confirm that the block was manufactured before the car and not the other way around. You could also have him get the casting numbers from the block (just above the bellhousing) the casting date will be there as well. That date definately shouldn't be a later date than the stamped one you described on the front engine boss. If those dates check out, and you have a build sheet I think you shouldn't have any issues with value. I think Dan Ruland here on the board went through the same thing as you recently with his SS, maybe Dan can shed some more light on the subject for you. ------------------ Dave C. 70 402 4spd Monte Carlo 71 SS 454 Monte Carlo 72 350 Monte Carlo 69 427 Corvette roadster 86 Grand National 96 Impala SS [This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 03-26-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Quote: <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DaveC:Steve,, For what it's worth..I've heard/read that it was not uncommon for the VIN not to get stamped in that location along with the numbers you've listed. But that it may also be stamped on the block above the oil filter as you've stated. If the seller has the build sheet, the upper left hand corner will indicate the unit number produced and the production date. maybe with that info you can confirm that the block was manufactured before the car and not the other way around. You could also have him get the casting numbers from the block (just above the bellhousing) the casting date will be there as well. That date definately shouldn't be a later date than the stamped one you described on the front engine boss. If those dates check out, and you have a build sheet I think you shouldn't have any issues with value. I think Dan Ruland here on the board went through the same thing as you recently with his SS, maybe Dan can shed some more light on the subject for you.</font> Dave, Thanks The Cowl tag shows a build date of January 2nd week which is encouraging. That would pre-date the engine by about 1 month. Final assemlby Los Angeles. As for build sheet I have heard/read under the back seat. Is this the top or bottom of the seat, perhaps on gas tank ? Can you still request these from GM with the VIN Number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Steve, I've found all of mine under the bottom section of the back seat, as well as hanging from the springs in either of the front bucket seats, I recently found one under the back plastic "shell" or cover on one of the buckets...but low and behold it was for a 70 SS which had a production number @10 cars ahead of mine. I've only ever seen pieces of them under the gas tank. The reason I suggested checking the casting date on the block, was for the posibility of someone re-stamping an incorrect block. I don't think you'll get any confirmation from GM, unless your car was built in Canada..in which case they can provide documentation on it for a fee. ------------------ Dave C. 70 402 4spd Monte Carlo 71 SS 454 Monte Carlo 72 350 Monte Carlo 69 427 Corvette roadster 86 Grand National 96 Impala SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Well, the VIN derivative was supposed to be stamped on all engine and trans after 1968, federal law. If its not there, then something is not original and its a bet it the engine. Could it have been missed on the line, possibly but it would be the exception not the rule. And the fact that it was not stamped, you could never prove. The stamping down by the distribtor is hard to see because its on the rough casting flange and vertical. fyi-The main reason for the VIN derivative (as it was called) was to help ID stolen parts, which were a big business back in the 60's. Very hard to tell the cops you had the original engine when the VIN derivative indicated the engine came from another car that was reported stolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjs-13 Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 You will find many early 1970 Monte Carlo and Chevelle's with 454's with NO VIN on the pad. It was stamped down on verticle "rough" casting nest to the oil filter. This is actually next to where the transmission bolts to the block. Most later 1970 Chevelles (February on) have the stamp on the pad. As a point of interest, 396 SS Chevelles were always on the pad from what I have seen with early 454 Chevelles by the oil filter. Go figure, they were made on the same line along with Monte's. I have never heard a good explanation as to why the 454 made a difference as to where the stamp was located. Production DID put all the stamps on the pad in the second half of the production year for all Chevelles. Since Monte's were made on the same line, I would expect this also to be the case. If the VIN is not on the pad, believe me, it is by the oil filter and it is usally a "[you said a naughty!]" to see. Many times, the only way you will see it is with the engine out of the car as the stamping is in "rough" cast iron, not a machines surface like on the engine pad at the front of the engine. Many, Many 69 Z28 are also stamped here and they are small blocks. As a matter of fact, on Z's, if you see a VIN stamp on the pad after January 1969, it's probably a restamp as they were all stamped down by the filter when assembled in Norwood. California Camaro's were typically on the pad. Point is, it's very probable that this IS the orginal motor. Look down by the oil filter and don't get upset if you do not see the stamp. Its VERY small and usually "lightly" hit because of the rough casting and usually greasy/dirty. Vin stamps by the oil filter are VERY well known in other parts of the Chevy hobby. As Monte's become more popular, this information will filter to this part of the hobby. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible 70 SS 454 Chevelle Convertible 70 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1 Convertible 73 Buick Gran Sport Century Stage 1 Four Speed 67 427/400 A/C Corvette Coupe 67 327/300 A/C Corvette Converible 67 P.O.S. Corvette Convertible 65 327/300 A/C Corvette Coupe 66 Shelby GT-350 Vintage Race Car [This message has been edited by mjs-13 (edited 03-29-2002).] [This message has been edited by mjs-13 (edited 03-29-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Originally posted by elcamino: Thanks for the help. The owner of the car is loking for the stamp. I will give him your info and have him look a little harder. We are several states apart so before I go on a long trip I want to get as much info as possible. Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Originally posted by mjs-13: Mike, Thanks for your reply. I just got an email from the owner. He found the build sheet!!!! A lot of it is missing, however but the most important elements are there. Z20, LS5 454, number on sheet matches vin number from car etc. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjs-13 Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Wolfman, That's great that he found the build sheet. Don't be too upset if he can't see the VIN on the side of the block. It's very difficult in the car, especially if a light hit. If this car does not work out and you want a restoration project. There is a loaded (all options) black/black 70 SS454 Monte for sale here in Middle Tennessee with build sheet and original engine. Best of luck with your purchase. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible 70 SS 454 Chevelle Convertible 70 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1 Convertible 73 Buick Gran Sport Century Stage 1 Four Speed 67 427/400 A/C Corvette Coupe 67 327/300 A/C Corvette Converible 67 P.O.S. Corvette Convertible 65 327/300 A/C Corvette Coupe 66 Shelby GT-350 Vintage Race Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Originally posted by mjs-13: Thanks, do you know how big of a restoration project or how to contact the owner? The car I'm looking at needs some minor work, drivers bucket seat is worn,temp guage not working neither is A/C. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjs-13 Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 The car in Tennessee is completely loaded but maybe not as nice as the car you are considering. The Tennessee car is unrestored however you can drive the car every day. It's just a decent to tired old Monte with build sheet, numbers match and all options. Email me off line at strinic1@bellsouth.net for owner information and I will give you his number for contact. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible 70 SS 454 Chevelle Convertible 70 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1 Convertible 73 Buick Gran Sport Century Stage 1 Four Speed 67 427/400 A/C Corvette Coupe 67 327/300 A/C Corvette Converible 67 P.O.S. Corvette Convertible 65 327/300 A/C Corvette Coupe 66 Shelby GT-350 Vintage Race Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Shown in my 1970 Assembly Manual, If produced in G.M.A.D. the numbers will be found on the right front upper block in front of the head (cylinder case pad). But if produced in a CHEVROLET ASSEMBLY PLANT the numbers will be found on the left rear lower block by the transmission & oil filter. If anyone wants I can fax you a copy. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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