mjs-13

I do stand corrected on Forged Pistons. I said "GM" engines in my post when I was thinking about and meant to say "Chevrolet V-8 engines". I have edited the post above to reflect Chevrolet V-8 engines.

Synthetic oils are wonderful for newly rebuilt engines (after break-in) or new vehicles. Many new vehicles are designed specifically to use synthetics. I use synthetics exclusively in my road race GT-350 for transmission and rearend. Given the fact it is changed every race and its 14 quarts, I use good ole Valvoline in the engine. I would not use synthetic is an older engine with miles over 50K. At this point you already have worn the engine enough that the benefits of synthetic would not be worth the cost. Synthetics also are of a lower visocity and will leak more if your engine already leaks. Try one of the "high mileage" oils now marketed with wear additives, seal expanding properties and viscosities for higher mileage engines. Chevrolet has not made a "V-8 Production Installed" engine with Forged pistons since the L-89 Tuned Port Corvette engine in the mid-late 80's. This statement will get everyone fired up but go look at the information. Late model LT-1, LT-5, LS-1 do not use a Forged piston. There is one piston that is a "modified type" of forging in a late model engine however it is not a true Forged piston in the true meaning of the word. There are "Forged Pistons" in several of the V-8 crate engines offered by Chevrolet. These engines are not subject to the same durability/use standards as those for current "production line installed" engines. Forged piston engines are set up with loose clearances when cold and "tighten" as they warm up due to thermal expansion. Ever notice how "dirty" the oil would get in old cars and how fast that happened? Loose clearances at cold startup caused hydrocarbons by the rings and walla, dirty oil! Thats why old oils had so much detergent in them. Older engines also used more oil than today's engines. Piston and piston ring technology has taken GIANT leaps to account for this wonderful change. Engines today use little, if any oil. Today's "GM production engines" use different types of pistons such as hyperutectic pistons, even in high horse applications. Use of these different pistons allow for much tighter cold start clearances, are much quieter and longer lasting. Also gone are many of the "long skirt" design pistons seen on many performance pistons of the 60's and 70's. Cold start is where most damage occurs. Cold start is where synthetic oils shine as they can be designed for specific characteristics. Many of our cars came with "cast pistons" as Monte's were not generally delivered with "HIPO" engines that saw the installation of Forged pistons in the early 70's. Synthetic oil would help if we could go back to when the engine was new. Late in an "engines" service life, don't waste the money. If you rebuild your engine with cast or forged pistons and plan on keeping your car, by all means use synthetic after break-in. Given today's piston technology, I would not build a "street" engine with Forged Pistons. To many BETTER/cheaper alternatives in the market today. I would change a "good/properly operating" transmission or rearend today to synthetics fluids. Manual transmission work especially well when filled with the properly recommended synthetic transmission fluid. Rearends rarely, if ever, get any service so go ahead and change to synthetic and you are good to go for as long as you will own the car. Don't forget the proper "posi" additive if recommended. Read the back of the synthetic rearend fluid bottle. Some already contain the needed friction modifier in the fluid. Maybe others will chime in but "I" believe synthetic oil is great stuff for specific applications. I use Mobil 1 and have for years. Look at what you plan to do with your car and make your own decision!

YES! I have seen some early SS 454 with the VIN down by the oil filter on cars made in Kansas City.

Coolram, I believe if you will check, there have been NO 1971 Chevelles found with a factory installed LS-6 yet. Lot's of rumors, but no cigar. Kinda of like the 4 speed SS454's and LS-6 SS 454 Monte Carlo's, everyone remembers seeing but have yet to produce with any documentation. As for the 1970 LS-6 production. Yes, there is a code for an aluminum head engine in 1970 however nobody has ever found one factory installed in a car with any paperwork. Remember, in my post I said factory installed. There were several different engine codes in numerous model years that made "the books" but were never installed in a production car. The only aluminum engine in a 1970 Chevelle was a 396/375 L-89. Of those, the production number is 18!!! There was also an iron head 396/375, the L-78. I have never seen 1970 Chevelle L-89 however I do have a friend who has one of these engines with a VIN from a 1970 Chevelle. He has had the engine for 20 years and still looking for the car. If he ever finds it, it will be the only one found so far. The nickname of the gentleman who has this engine is "COPO". That ought to tell you the type of cars he owns, buys and sells. Low mileage, no rust, original paint and paperwork. If one was out there, he would know of the car. These rare cars trade in a very limited group of "big bucks" people. Have a great weekend!

I believe you find that a 402 is actually a 396 that is 0.030 overbore. The 402 is generally expected in a Chevelle after January 1 1970. Most 70 Chevelles in the fall of 1969 did have actual 396 engines. Note that the 396/375 engine option was cancelled in December 1969. How does this affect Monte's? Not really sure. I have never specifically heard if the 402 was used in the Monte from the get go in September 1969 or were actual 402 engine Monte's produced like Chevelles, after January 1970 since they were made in the same assembly facility? Who has a "real" 1970 402 car made in September-November 1969 that still has the original engine? Did they make 402 cars in the fall of 1969? Original pistons will tell the tale as 402's have bigger pistons than a 396 as stated above. We certainly know for a fact that SS 454 cars were made very early in 1970 production such as late August and early September 1969. Notice in 1971 that ALL reference to the 396 is dropped. All Chevelles equipped with the 402 make no reference to "396" as there are NO emblems on the car as there was on the 1970 model. Have a great day!

Aluminum heads and the LS-6 depends on the year. In 1970, the LS-6 engine had "291" iron heads. They were unique in that they were closed chamber with small (5/8 inch) spark plugs. This was the only head to have "this" combination. In 1971 the LS-6 engine did have aluminum heads on engines installed in the 188 Corvettes with this engine combination. There are no known as of now, applications (cars) besides Corvette where the LS-6 was factory installed in a production car. So an LS-6 can go either way with aluminum heads depending upon production year of the engine. Most if not all over the counter "crate" LS-6 engines of any year manufacture were iron head motors.

No cassettes, only 8 tracks. Go to a swap meet and look around for an old Pioneer cassette radio. They made AM-FM Cassettes in the 80's that will perfectly fit the hole in the dash with no cutting. Generally pick them up for $5.00. You can also call Carl who owns Custom Auto Sound in California. He makes a nice product although it ain't cheap!

Where do Monte Carlo's rust? Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, the Northest. Take your pick, cars also rust in the south. Head west if you do not like rust.

All the Corvette guys are using a color called "blitz black" from John Deere. Available at any John Deere store. It is the closest thing anyone has found to duplicate the original underhood/inner fender/firewall/under hood black used by GM through the 70's. It is also easily available, in a spray can and cheap. I find it hard to believe that Corvette had anything special in St. Louis asssembly for Corvette given the fact that across the alley they also built trucks and big Chevy's at St. Louis assembly. If you can/will check the GM AIM requirement, I'll bet the black out black was very consistent throughout the different car lines and makes. Only tint differences would have been from different suppliers. As a backup there is always "1613" Krylon semi flat black.

thanks for the help. Mike

Does anyone have a "Hollander" exchange manual? I would like to know if the rear glass from a 1972 Cutlass Supreme will fit a Monte. Remember, there are 3 body styles for Cutlass that year. I am only interested in the "Supreme" body, not the "S" body or convertible. Oldsmobile made a rear glass window in 72 with electric window defogger grid in the window. Looks like it will fit a Monte. Please help if you can. Thanks Mike

Swapping the body would be MUCH harder. You still have to solve the most difficult part of the conversion, finishing the tops of the quarters where you cut the sail panel off the Monte Quarters. You might also would have to use expensive GM Monte quarters. I would try repo quarter skings. You still have to replace the outer wheel housings, trunk drop offs, tail light mounts, rear tail panel etc. It truly IS much easier to flame (cut up) the Monte and sacrifice the parts car. Besides, most old convertibles are already more rusty that our Monte's so you also have to deal with that issue. The frame swap is easy. Do box the frame for torsional rigidity. Happy cutting!!! ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

Remember that the Monte Carlo wheelbase is 4 inches "longer" than a Chevelle. A Chevelle system may not/probably will not fit. I am sure Gardner's or Allens Stainless Steel exhaust can help. Do a web search. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

I spent this weekend in COLD Florida at the NCRS (National Corvette Restorers Society) Winter meet. Next to me in the swap meet was Neal who owns Michigan Corvette Recyclers. Neal is a retired GM engineer (28 Years) who spent much time at the tech center. Neal currently manufacturers a lot of old Corvette/Chevrolet parts with old GM molds/dies or from actual GM blueprints. It pays to know the right people and where to go to get the information. We were talking about our current project cars and I mentioned my Monte Carlo Convertible. Neal then mentioned that several years ago he got a call from GM that they were going to "scap" a bunch of molds/dies and come look at the molds. All 500+ of them! In the bunch were the 4 dies for the Monte Carlo fenders! Since many of these molds/dyes where of no "commercial value" to the restoration market, he passed on most and they were scrapped. By "commercial value" he meant products that could make a profit by reproduction. He said there were some dies for original GM sheet metal that were already reproduced in Taiwan that were now retailed at such a cheap price the reconditioning on the dies would cost more than the potential profit. In this lot of molds/dyes were the original 1st generation Monte Carlo fender dies for left and right/inner and outer dies. He DID tell them to keep those as he wanted those for reproduction since nobody did anything with Monte's. Now, here is the BIG kicker, When the scrap company cleaned out the building they got the 2 inner dies for the left and right fenders that were on one pallet and left the pallet with the outers! When he found out this information he when to the scrap dealer who had already disposed/melted/scaped all the molds/dies. Since the outers were not any good without the inners, he told GM to scrap those also as they were now of no value without the other half. The cost of tooling to make new inner matching dies would not have been ecomonically feasible to invest the money with any payback given the limited market interest (at that time) in 1st generation Monte Carlo's. SO OFF TO SCRAP YARD WENT THE OTHER HALF OF THE DIE! Is this what happened? Knowing Neal I have no doubt this is true. Neal was a design engineer in his career at GM and knows what he is looking at concerning molds/dies. Neal makes all the reproduction Corvette chassis frames/part and many other parts with the original GM dies/molds and gets the GM prints. You can actually buy his reproduction Corvette frame through you local GM dealer as it is available through GM parts. How's that for connected! He has new repo products now in the pipeline. So can we expect Monte fenders to ever be made again with the GM dies. Apparently not! I thought everyone would find this interesting! ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

Check the service manual and get your ohm meter. Check the sending unit with a meter. It should have specific readings that are necessary to properly operate that gauge. Just tap into the sending unit line, tan wire I believe. Take a reading at the level of gas you have now. Then either siphon on some gas or add some gas and see the change. Sending units are cheap and easier to change than the gauge. Buy you sending unit if needed at GM. They are still available. However it could be the gauge???? ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

Go to Chevelles.com and/or Camaros.com. Lots of brake swap information. Chevelles/Camaros/Monte had the same disc brake spindles/rotors etc 1969 up. Lots of cheap 12 inch rotor swaps on these sites. A guy named Dave Pozzi has a bunch of information on a web site. You may try an internet search or look on the Camaro site. Great information for cheap disc brakes. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

ggMonte, I am not speaking of a "new" POA valve. I am speaking of a total replacement of the POA valve! This replacement fits in the same spot and has the same fittings as a POA valve. I assume that the only thing you want to change is the compressor to the Sanden as per your original post. Yes, the Sanden is a much better unit that is more efficient and takes less horsepower to operate. Since you will be making "new" hoses, make sure they are made with vapor barrier A/C hose compatible with 134. These are better hoses anyway. Now you can use "any" refrigerant you want! The POA valve is not 134 friendly. Replace it with the Old Air POA valve replacement part if you want to use 134. I replace the POA valve on all "my" cars so equipped without regard to the type of refrigerant I intend to use. A POA valve method of regulating compressor pressures in not a good method and its function is worse with the higher operating pressures required by 134. Again, the POA replacement part will allow the new compressor to "cycle" just as they do in New cars built today. If a POA valve were that good, GM would still use it! GM replaced the POA valve with an "accumulator" in most cars in 1975. This system is in use today! There are some guys who have found late model evaporators with a mount for an accumulator that will fit the GM A body evaporator box on the firewall. This would make the transformation complete to a late model system. Check on Chevelles.com by doing a search for this information. I have not done this as it is not necessary. Old Air advertises in Hemmings Motor news or just call them at 817 531 2665. Tell them Mike at McGee's Corvette Connection in Tn said to call. I have a Vintage Air "sure fit" system in one of my Corvettes and it works GREAT! I use 134 in that system. If you have questions, call me at 615 347 7459. Have fun!!! ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible [This message has been edited by mjs-13 (edited 10-26-2002).]

As stated above, you CAN change over to 134 and it does work as long as you change the oil in the compressor system. Now, the problems that can ultimately arise. The A/C hoses on are cars are NON vapor barrier. This is OK with R12 as it has a large molecule. 134 has a much smaller molecule and will eventually leak "through" the non barrier hoses on our cars. The fix is to update to late model barrier hoses. A hose supplier can make these locally. The POA valve on our cars is very inefficient way to control pressure and the compressor. A POA valve is not friendly to 134 and can cause problems in a 134 system. The best thing to do is replace it with a part from OLD AIR PRODUCTS in FT. Worth Tx. This part can be specified with fittings for 134 or R12 and its replacements. What is does is allow the system to operate like a late model system and "CYCLE" the compressor instead of using a POA valve to control freon flow based upon pressure. This is a MUCH better way to go. Cost is about $80.00 for the part. Other than that, make sure you always replace the dryer when you open the system and the small system filter. Instead of converting to 134, I have been using the substitues such a FREEZE 12 that require no oil or fittings changes on your original system. About $4.00 a can a O'Reilys Auto Parts. If you have the car apart, I would replace the evaporator and expansion valve, dryer and condenser. After 30 years of use or more importantly "non use", they are not "that" expensive and much easier if the box is off the firewall. Also do the heater core before it ruins your carpet. Remember, it also probably 30 years old. I would DEFINTELY replace the POA valve in any system. This makes the compressor last much longer and is much better way to go for compressor control no matter which refrigerant you use. The original system will work with 134 as a replacement. Rob Peters has proven that! Are the updates that can be made? YES! Do I use the updates I have outlined? Yes and I have chilly wind blowing all the time! ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

The stamp behind the alternator CAN be seen with the alternator installed although it can be difficult due to the bracket and limited light. Use a flashlight/drop light. Most likely you will have to wipe the grease off the pad to see anything. One stamp will start with a T, four numbers, and one of the engine codes listed by Andreas. The other stamp (if it is there?) will be as previously described by me OR down by the oil filter in no other stamp on engine pad. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

Vin number stampings one of 2 places on the block. The machined pad on the right front of the block (behind the alternator) OR stamped vertically on a rough cast area above the oil filter on the side of the block where the transmission mounts. The "stamp" will not include the complete VIN but will begin with the number 1 for Chevrolet Division, then year of car (0 for 70) at letter for the plant of manufacture (B for Baltimore and the 6 digit consecutive VIN number of the car, ie the last six numbers of the VIN tag on the dash. The stamp will not include the body information or engine code (72 only) that is listed in the VIN on the dash. The original engine head decks were "broached, machined flat in a straight line" by GM during engine manufacture, not decked in a circular motion like most/all machine shops do with a "Sunnen brand" decking machine. This is something to look at to see if restamped. Unlikely in a Monte Carlo, probably in a BB Corvette. If it can be counterfited, its been done in the Corvette world as it was invented there years ago. There are several "experts" with a large and complete library of "known engine stamps". Yes, there are people who can/will restamp blocks and you cannot tell it was a restamp. The proper stamps are still sold by the original GM supplier. A complete set with "Gange" holder for the stamps cost about $1,500. It's all in knowing where to go! This is what the folks who advertise engine stamping have done. At $200-$500 a stamp that most of these guys charge, it does not take long to pay for stamps. If you have the proper stamps and knowledge of the changes during the different model years you can make some bucks. The big difference (between the men and the boys) is know the proper look/preparation of the head deck to get the broach marks correct prior to stamping the block. All of this is actually not quite legal as it is a felony to remove a VIN number from a block. I guess this depends on who removes the original numbers? Don't tell that to most engine builders/machine shops as engines are decked every day accross the US during engine rebuild machining and this removes the original numbers, OH WELL! It is difficult to read the VIN stamp if it is down by the oil filter. Light stamps, grease and limited access make it hard to read. It you have a BB and the there is NO evidence of a "VIN" stamp on the front right engine pad, it will be by the oil filter. Remember, in either case there will STILL be the engine assembly stamp/code on pad at the right front of the engine. This stamp was installed at the "engine" manufacturing plant. Tonawanda NY for BB engines. The VIN stamp was installed on the engine at the car assembly plant. Hope this helps with a little information. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

A hammer works best. Break glass with hammer. This simplifies access and allows easy removal of the phillips screws. Remove screws and trim. Install new trim. Buy new side glass and install. You can also remove the window if you choose not to break it. Actually pretty easy. Remove the door panel, slightly lower the window and you will find 7/16 or 1/2 inch nuts that are on studs through the bottom of the window where they attach to the window regulator. Remove these nuts, 3 I think and wiggle/lift the glass out. As stated earlier by AGTTRUNKLID, should be able to get to the screws by lowering the window as far as it will go. If not low enough, remove the door panel and you can adjust the stops to lower the window even more for access. Return the stops to the proper height when done. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

Dave, Thanks for the kind comments. I drove a 72 Monte Carlo 454 Custom in 1984-1985 as a daily driver. Lived in Texas. In process of moving back to Tennessee, I sold the car to a guy in NY. Wonder what happened to that #'s match car. It was gold with white vinyl top and light tan cloth bench interior. Good rust free Texas car with nice paint and interior. By the way, I see you live on the Northwest left coast. I am originally from Spokane! ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible [This message has been edited by mjs-13 (edited 08-23-2002).]

Dave, Sure there are lots of variables as you stated. The Buicks were available with a 3.42 rear gear in the automatic and 3.64 in the 4 speed. Those were the ONLY choices and this was based on transmission type ordered. By the way, the four speed was an M-21. The M-22 was not available per the order sheets. The automatic cars are the most quoted in old car tests. Again, probably torque and the higher gear help. Most LS-6's have 3.70-4.10's in the 12 bolt. We will never know, if we did there would not be much to talk about on the internet. It is interesting that the Buicks have won many of the pure stock drags. I still like my Chevy's however I have not seen near the enthusiasm in Chevy clubs for drag racing as there is in the Buick club. Looks do not make much difference to the Buick guys but go go does. If you are ever in Bowling Green Ky. in May, go to the Gran Sport Nationals at Beech Bend Park/Dragway. The racing is something else. Not a bunch of professionals, but hard core enthusiasts. It is worth the trip just to be a spectator. Have a great day. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible

The 70 chevelle LS-6 had the highest "horsepower rating" of any engine ever installed in a production car at 450 horsepower. The torque rating was 460 lbs/ft torque. The Chevelle LS-6 had solid lifters, big cam, Holley carb, aluminum intake, different heads big valves with square ports, 4 bolt mains etc. The 70 Stage 1 Gran Sport Buick has the highest "torque rating" of any engine ever installed in a production car at "510" lbs/ft of torque. The horsepower rating was 370 Horsepower. The only difference between the regular Buick 455 and the Stage 1 was bigger valves (same heads), larger Quadraject carburator, bigger cam. The block, rods, pistons and CAST IRON intake manifold were the same. Amazing how much engineering/engine work Chevrolet had to do to run slower than a slightly modified Buick. Traction is certainly an issue however both the Chevelle and Gran Sport have the same rear end configuration as far as mounting points and design. Torque MUST be the key??? Buy the way, the 70 GS Buick used a "big" 10 bolt rearend. The Chevelle used a "special" code 12 bolt. The only 12 bolts in 70 Buicks were the few Gran Sports that were made in Canada. ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible 1970 Buick Stage 1 Gran Sport Convertible [This message has been edited by mjs-13 (edited 08-17-2002).]

Buick Stage 1 wins AGAIN! Boy that makes the LS-6 Chevelle guys MAD. They just do not want to hear that a damn Buick will out run their holly grail Chevelle. As the Buick guys say "Go fast with Class"! All kidding aside, a 70 Stage 1 Buick is on fast ride stock and really fast modified. There are some 4,000 lb Stage 1 Buicks in high 8's, low 9's. The Buick guys aren't to much on the looks but WAY big on the fast. Try V8buicks.com for more Buick information. Mike Strinich 1970 Buick Stage 1 Convertible ------------------ Mike Strinich Nashville, Tennessee 72 Monte Carlo Convertible