MCfan

Glad to hear your Monte is back on the road, Mark. It's frustrating to spend time, money and effort on an "improvement" project and then end up right back where you started - been there, done that. But, at least you have the experience and the lessons learned. I am getting paranoid about ordering aftermarket parts because it is sometimes very difficult to know if they are going to fit or work once you get them. There are often unstated exceptions to the "application" charts that can only be discovered by a bad experience. Sounds like we are both left with "modern" starters that we can't use on our current Montes. Oh, well, live and learn. Maybe there's a "new build" somewhere in the new future that can use some of our left over parts?

Many thanks, Dan!!! I believe with your photos and actual measurements taken from my compressor and inner fender, I can come up with something that works. I won't be reunited with my SS car until May, but I will definitely make this one of my summer projects after that. Right now I'm thinking how handy some plumber's flashing lead sheets would be to create a pattern to transfer to sheet steel. In the meantime, I have transferred your photos to a Word document and printed it so I have something to show to local salvage yards and filter manufacturers. Lots of folks would like to help find original or replacement parts, but I have been unable to accurately describe them. I even found a filter manufacturer that said they could probably custom make something if I could send them a sketch or photo. I'll let you know when/if I come up with something. Thanks again for your help!

Hey, Dan, thanks for the photos of the rear mounting bracket and the filter. I need a filter for mine also, but did not have a clue what an original looked like. Did you find your NOS filter on eBay? Do you know of any current source? That looks like open cell foam. If that is all there is to it, I think I can make one, also. Mind if I ask what material you used? Just looking at that rear bracket, I can envision a pretty simple one fabricated from a long-legged angle of either iron or aluminum. It won't have all those sexy curves and pockets, but it will hold the compressor up off the fender securely. And, since it is not original anyway, I don't see any reason to weld the nuts to the bracket either. I could even use a square nut to make it less obvious. Do you happen to have a photo of the front mount you could share? Many thanks!

Jared, I agree. I would eagerly tackle such a project, but I don't know how they are shaped or any dimensions. I would think they could be built with common shop tools from scrap steel if either a pattern, a sketch with accurate dimensions or an engineering drawing were available. If worse comes to worse, I have the compressor and the holes in the fender so I'll just fabricate something that gets the job done until I can find or make something better. BTW, I believe your prices are out of date (unless you get some kind of healthy discount).

Originals don't seem to be available at any price. I have been looking for a set for over seven months. I have never seen a set "in the flesh" but in the 1970 MC Assembly Manual they appear to be stamped steel parts that are formed and drilled for fasteners. They were probably fairly cheap to make originally. I know someone has actually machined a set or two from solid stock, but that involves lots of labor and machining hours so the cost is high - I've heard $275 or more for the set. I suppose the demand is way too small to get a reproduction parts house to have some stamped but I would sure like to try to custom make a set from sheet steel. They may not look completely original but at least they would get my restored compressor mounted. It would be great if a set of engineering drawings with dimensions could be found. In fact, it would be valuable to several club members to have close up photos and/or a sketch with basic dimensions. Does anyone have anything they can share? Thanks.

Mark (Wallaby), thanks for your incredibly clear and helpful post on starter alignment! I have already transferred it to a Word document, printed and filed it for future reference. It should be added to the tech archive here, also. Mark (cardude), in case you don't already have a flywheel turning tool, below is an example of what Mark mentioned. This one is a K-D No 2270 but there are probably many other brands available that will accomplish the same task. Good luck.

Murray, You may find the following site helpful in answering your questions: http://www.chevellestuff.com/qd/muncie.htm Apparently number cast in the tailshaft housing is the one that you need to pay attention to: 3857584 1966 - 1970 Passenger side speedometer, 27 spline 3978764 1970 - 1974 Passenger side speedometer, 32 spline This information from the site above would indicate that your '71 would have received an M20 with a tailshaft housing stamped with "39787" which would nhave a 32 tooth output spline. However it would have also received a matching U joint on the driveshaft. What you probably need to determine is what your current TH350 and drive shaft spline count is if you want to match it. If you have a 27 tooth drive shaft U joint, you will want to get and M20 stamped "3857384" on the tail housing like mine (see below). You will probably only want to consider M20s with a main case casting number of 3925661 for 1970 to 1974 production models. Also, you will obviously need to match your pressure plate splines to your input shaft splines. Note this quote from the site above: "There are 7 different input shaft possibilities on a Muncie. All 26 spline inputs came with 32 spline output shafts and all 10 spline inputs came with 27 spline output shafts." Actually, you should be able to select the best M20 available to you for the price and then match the pressure plate and drive shaft U joint to the input and output shafts, respectively. Sorry this is not a difinitive answer, but it should give you some possible options. Maybe some member that has already done this swap can give you more specific guidance. Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback on the Power Probe III, Mike. Need to add one of these to my wish list. I found a source through Amazon that has a pretty good price right now. http://www.amazon.com/Power-Probe-Ultima...howViewpoints=1 BTW, I really like the color combo of your '71 (signature photo). Is that the dark copper color that was unique to the '71 model year? The whitewalls also give it a very clean, classic look. Beautiful!

Many thanks for the link to that excellent HEI document, Mark! That is exactly what I needed! Certainly confirmed my suspicions about excessive end play causing timing variations. I will get one of those shim kits and tighten the end play up to no more than .010" before I try to install it. Also, great photos and information on heat conducting grease, performance coils/modules, 10 ga solid copper lead wire and proper timing suggestions for street versus track. I still need to get a new rotor and a set of wires before I can even try it. This information should keep me out of trouble. Thanks again for sharing such a useful document!

Hey, Jerry, nice job on the dash! Those analog gauges sure look better than the idiot lights and you still have a very uncluttered, stock-looking appearance. Congratulations on sharing your project albumn with us via the link! I am facing a stereo speaker decision soon as I only have the new radio installed so far and my car just had a single center speaker. I need to get a different dash pad first so no hurry, but, if I may ask, whose speakers those are that you installed in the front corners and where did you buy them? Looks like they fit without a lot of bracket modifications, but that may not be correct. I'm too old for mega-wattage and loud noises so I just want something that will install easily and be audible above normal road/traffic noise while cruising (with the windows down, of course).

Thanks for the feedback, Andy. This was my first experience with Actron products. It was my only brand choice at the nearby Advance Auto (for a compression tester) and I didn't think a big specialty outfit like them would handle complete junk so I took a chance. You're correct that my primary interest was in relative readings because I was trying to identify a cylinder that suddenly started missing. My initial inspection of the plug wires was too cursory because the #5 plug boot was on the plug but not far enough for a reliable electrical connection. Of course, I didn't discovered that until I pulled all the plugs for the compression test (#5 plug was black and wet). I went ahead with the compression test out of pure curiousity. The closeness of the relative readings (+/- 5 PSI) was good to see (if it can be believed) but I remain puzzled regarding the 240 PSI mean of the readings (also the absolute reading on 6 of the 8 cylinders). I suppose the only thing to do now is to purchase or rent a more "professional" tester and rerun the test. I have long suspected higher compression on this motor (and there are plenty of other visible symptoms), but I seriously doubt it is as high at the PSI readings I got might otherwise indicate. The Engineering VP I used to work with in the IBM development lab often said, "You can't BS an electron!" And so it is with all of the laws of physics. That level of pressure is caused by the related physical properties of the engine (thanks for that C.R. equation, Mike), but is probably not being measured accurately by the instrument I used. If it wasn't such a simple instrument and so relatively foolproof to use (i.e. no way to make it read higher than the highest pressure it sees - although probably possible get lower readings through improper connection), I might also suspect operator error. I guess relativity is usually easier to assess than absoluteness.

Many thanks for the feedback, Davey! This may just be confirmation of something I have suspected for quite awhile .... as you said, higher compression than I thought ... and probably higher than I need or would like to live with. Other possible symptoms of higher compression include: - The original starter always works to turn the engine over, even after I solved the marginal ground issue. - Complete intolerance of any fuel lower than 93 octane. - Chronic dieseling/run-on when I shut it down when it's hot. - Occasional detonation under heavy acceleration, even with conservative timing (4 deg BTDC initial, 16 degrees vacuum advance, 32 degrees mechanical advance all in at 2600 rpm) When I bought a bad batch of "premium" gas from BP last summer(never again!), I could barely accelerate without detonation until I added Seafoam and some 108 octane booster. The Speed Shop receipts say the motor was bored .060" over and the block was decked .010". The heads were replaced with new GM heads (don't know which ones yet, need to check the casting numbers) which were also reworked for larger valves and milled some. Depending on the combustion chamber size of those reworked heads, the compression could be somewhat higher than the 10.6:1 that the L2337F +.060 TRW forged pistons normally give. As you suggest, the cam may be contributing to the higher PSI reading, also. It's a very old Sig Erson Hi-Flow 396 single pattern cam with 286/64/.540 duration/overlap/lift. I suppose a better combination of heads, cam and intake manifold could make the engine much more suitable to my needs without messing with the bottom end. In the meantime, I will keep buying premium gas and retard the timing enough to prevent detonation under normal driving conditions. I've got a complete tuning kit for my 1806 Edelbrock AVS Thunderer carb so I may play around with that some, also. The car is a blast to drive but the fuel consumption and the occasional detonation are worrisome.

I decided to check the compression in each cylinder of my modified 402 last week so I went to Advance Auto and purchased an Actron Compression Tester Kit. The gauge with this kit is calibrated from 0 to 300 PSI on the outside scale and 0 to 20+ kPa (whatever that means!) on the inner scale. I read and closely followed all of the instructions with one exception. I wanted to try this with a cold engine rather than burn the $#!? out of my hands on the hot headers. So I did the entire compression test with a cold engine. I grounded the primary coil wire to the frame, removed all the plugs and wired the carb throttle plates wide open. After learning the proper plug seating angle, I managed to screw the adapter firmly into place and connect the hose securely to the gauge. I cranked the engine a minimum of 4 cranks per cylinder test, again, per instructions. I am pleased with the consistency of the readings (+ or - only 5 PSI) across all eight cylinders but completely puzzled by the absolute mean reading of 240 PSI. This seems high to me but I saw it eight times in a row after four cranks per cylinder when it plateaued at or near that value. There is a simple Schrader valve on the end of the hose that screws into the spark plug hole so the maximum pressure at the gauge could never be higher than the maximum pressure in the cylinder at any point. The recommended minimum of 4 cranks is simply to ensure that the hose between the cylinder head and the gauge is properly pressurized before a reading is observed. It is entirely logical that there must be some direct relationship between a cylinder's Compression Ratio and the Maximum Compression Pressure (measured in PSI) at the spark plug hole. So, I looked that relationship up online and got a whole spectrum of answers and opinions. Ask.com simply says that PSI divided by 14.7 equals the compression ratio. Hmmm...240 PSI / 14.7 = 16.33 Impossible, I'm afraid. Others say the relationship is complicated and includes valve timing, etc. which is at least plausible. These measurements were taken about 10 feet above sea level so atmospheric pressure should be very near 14.7 PSI. I read prior threads on this site and others where compression tests yielded pressures of 150 to 170 PSI so how is it possible that my test showed 235 to 245 PSI? Has anyone seen readings in this range or did I just buy a bogus Compression Tester? I hardly see how the difference could be because of a cold engine test, but that may be a factor. I would think that would give low readings rather than high readings, but maybe not. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience that could enlighten me on this issue? Thanks.

I'm looking for answers and advice on rebuilding and swapping a stock GM HEI distributor into my '70 402 car. Specifically, I need to know how much shaft end play is acceptable and what certain numbers mean that are stamped on the internal parts. Although I have an Accel points eliminator in my stock distributor (came to me that way), I have been contemplating the swap of a stock GM HEI unit. I picked up one in a parts swap recently and have been cleaning and rebuilding it. I've never played with an HEI before so I downloaded instructions from the internet on the basics of removal, disassembly, reassembly and installation. I also took pictures of the unit and tracked parts carefully so I wouldn't assemble it incorrectly or leave parts on the bench. Well, it all looks correct except that there is .085" of vertical shaft end play (see photo below). That amount of end play was there when I disassembled it so I didn't leave any shims out, but it just doesn't seem right. With the helical drive gear, it seems like excessive end play could affect the radial positioning of the rotor relative to the fixed housing, introducing a variation in the timing. I recently disassembled my stock Delco Remy distributor and it had enough flat shims in place to virtually eliminate shaft end play. Does anyone know how much shaft end play is acceptable or recommended for a GM HEI? Also, I am wondering if the numbered internal parts will be correct for my 402. In the photo below, the mechanical advance weights are each stamped with "106", the spring post retainer is stamped with "361" and the tongue of the vacuum advance is stamped with "624 20". I think the "20" means 20 degrees of maximum vacuum advance, but I haven't a clue what the other numbers mean. I assume the mechanical advance curve is set with springs of various tensions like the my original distributor. Finally, are there any other electrical components (i.e. ballast resistors, etc.) than need to be deleted, replaced or added to make this swap? Many thanks for any answers or advice!

Thanks for the link, Bob. And thanks for the installation tips, Terry. That is a really nice looking spoiler! It's going on my "to do" list which is getting longer by the day.

Terry, which front spoiler did you install? Was it specifically for a Monte/Chevelle or did you fabricate the mounting? Hope you don't mind me asking. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I know there has been a recent thread on front spoilers, but I don't remember that our car was specifically mentioned. Thanks,

Beautiful finished product, Terry!! Now I know how my blue '70 would look with bumper guards and front spoiler.

Ken, I have replaced the trim rings on both of my Montes. The first set I got from David's Rally Wheels in CA the summer of 2010. I actually found them on eBay as a part of a complete package of Rally wheels, trim rings and derby caps. Since I wanted (2) 15 X 7' and (2) 15 X 8" wheels, I had to call the seller (David's Rally Wheels) and work out a specific deal. They were good to deal with, had reasonable product and shipping prices and great service. They sent me one derby cap with the bowtie logo so I called them and the put the correct one in express mail that day and included a return label of the wrong one. No hassle for me at all. I don't know if I ever knew exactly how much the trim rings cost because I bought the whole package. I have been extremely pleased with the weight, durability and appearance of these 3" deep trim rings. I am sure mine are highly polished stainless steel. Last summer I bought a set of chrome trim rings for my SS car and I ordered them from The Parts Place. I believe they were right at $100 for a set of 4. They look and fit great, but I always hold my breath when I take them off or put them on because they feel less substantial than the set I got from David's. You might want to check with David's on brands, styles and prices because he seems to move a lot of volume and can probably get you just about anything you want. Here's his web site: http://www.davidsrallywheels.com/ Good luck.

Thanks, Dan, that's very helpful. That's the same color interior I had on my first new Monte back in 1970 - sure brings back memories!

Jacob, Just wanted to give you this kink to a Photobucket album that has picutres of each page of my 1970 Monte Carlo wiring diagram. 1970 Monte Carlo Wiring Diagram pages I understand that these print rather small so if you want/need to print the pages, send me an email note (dbengtson4@comcast.net) and I can send you the original photo files that should print larger. BTW, I don't know how much difference there is, if any, between '70 and '71/'72 wiring diagrams. These are specific to the '70.

Many thanks for sharing both of those articles, Rainer! They will make a huge difference for me! I still need to see if I can find a photo or two of the switch placement on the door panels. I am hoping/trusting that the power window switches will go into the same positions as the current manual window cranks but I haven't a clue where the power door lock switches are located. Does anyone have both of those options on their Monte and a photo or two of the door panels they can share? Thanks!

Hey, Andy, I don't mean to question the "voice of experience" but I am wondering about your "including the dash" comment. Do you need to actually pull the whole dash out of the car for acess to the firewall or is it sufficient to remove the seven fasteners and pull it forward? The article that Rainer shared also says to remove the dash, as well as, the front and rear seats and roll up the carpet edges. I've just recently purchased both power window and power door lock changeovers from other club members so I plan to install both in my 4-speed car as one project and I want to do it correctly. I've pulled the dash forward twice already and it's no fun (at least for me). It looks like there's a whole lot of electrical and AC stuff that has to be disconnected to get the dash physically out of the car, but if that's what it really takes, I will do it. It is only the wonderful convenience of power windows and door locks that inspires me to take on what is bound to be a challenging project, at least for me. As you would know, manual windows and door locks are a PITA when you live in Florida (unless you want to leave your windows down and doors unlocked every time you run into a store or resturant). Thanks for sharing your views and experience.

Keith, I tried to answer a similar question for another member this morning. Go to this post and see if it helps you. http://www.firstgenmc.com/ubbthreads/ubb...9674#Post359674 To put a picture into your signature block (below your posts) and your avatar (beside your posts) you will need to go to the My Stuff area and click on Edit Profile. You will find sections near the bottom to enter text and pictures for your signature and avatar blocks. NOTE: You will probably need to run whatever picutres you choose through an on-line photo size reducer before you link it into either the signature or avatar block because there are size limitations. There are many free on-line photo resizing sites - just Google them. This can take some time and doing, IMO. Good luck.

Congratulations, Dave!!! The sweetness of success!! Now your partner Dal can check your tailights after each run. Don't forget to change your avatar to "In the 9's!!!"

Hi, Scott, I bought my plastic inner front fenders from the Parts Place and have been very satisfied with them. They are flexible enough to bolt into place without having to use a lot of force or drill new holes. I've had to remove the driver's side twice to get access to the oil pressure sending unit and that has always gone well. One caution, however, is that the plastic is fairly easy to mar so keep sharp objects off the top side and don't use anything abrasive to clean them up. Mine shine up pretty well with Meguiar's Natural Protectant for car shows. Can't speak for the other brands. Have you ever posted pictures of your Monte? Perhaps it is not "presentable" yet? BTW, nothing wrong with green - it's just blue with a little gold thrown in!