Mom's Car Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hey Dave.....not to hijack this thread, but what was the cam specs on the previous cam you replaced. Damn......6 tenths on a cam change is HUGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 hey Greg, I tried one of the Thumpr's when they first came out, full roller.....227/241....547/530 on a 107 the cam Chris did for the Monte is based on the one he did for the Velle with just slightly less intake duration, 234 vs 238 in the Velle...the trick with Chris' cams is in the timing events (lobe and ramp design, something he doesn't put out there too much as you can imagine). People are amazed at how the Velle runs with such a small hyd cam, it's all in the combo which Chris is a master at. The lift in both cams is 650/629 and both of mine are 107's..... I think the lift had a lot to do with it too, allowing the motor to finally breathe a bit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom's Car Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 hey Greg, I tried one of the Thumpr's when they first came out, full roller.....227/241....547/530 on a 107 the cam Chris did for the Monte is based on the one he did for the Velle with just slightly less intake duration, 234 vs 238 in the Velle...the trick with Chris' cams is in the timing events (lobe and ramp design, something he doesn't put out there too much as you can imagine). People are amazed at how the Velle runs with such a small hyd cam, it's all in the combo which Chris is a master at. The lift in both cams is 650/629 and both of mine are 107's..... I think the lift had a lot to do with it too, allowing the motor to finally breathe a bit.... Thanks for the info Dave......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 If you are going to run a Victor if I may I'd suggest the 454R(O) if you are going to do any street driving. Are you going to use a 4150 style carb with an adapter, or are you going to switch to a dominator style carb? If you are looking to possibly go the dominator route AED has an awesome carb they call their Pro-Street Dominator. Check it out. It is as deadly on the track as any 1050 carb, but is just as much at home cruising the streets. I have had one for five years and have never had one issue. AED hand builds a carb just for your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Cam specs will be 643/612, 234/243 @50 108 Lobe Seperation. I'm gonna have to reteach myself how to drive the car now. That and I hear this motor will probably be knocking on 600HP & Torque's door. What kinda sucks now is, the New Stage 2 Bowtie 2004r trans I have says its good to 450-500 HP/ 400-450 Torque. Drag racing with slicks is going to be out for awhile. I could send it back. For an additional $800.00 to make it a stage 3. What really sucks is it's $300.00 to make it stronger. and $500.00 to get it shipped there and back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's your money, but to spend another $800.00 on a tranny that will only hold that power for a little while IMHO would be a waste of time and money. If you have to have an overdrive(I don't blame you for street driving with tall gears) at that power level you really only have a couple choices in transmissions that will stand the test of time. Having learned the hard way it's best to pay up front one time and do it right as oppossed to try and do it on the cheap only to end up paying out even more money down the road to have your tranny rebuilt because it wasn't up to the task for the long haul. IMHO a manual shift 4L80 tranny can't be beat. You can set it up as a full auto shift, but the control module will run you some serious cash. That's why most guys just go with the manual shift version. The 4L80 tranny is basically a Turbo 400 with an overdrive so it can easily withstand 900HP in stock trim. You other option is a Turbo 400 with a Gear Vendor's overdrive attached to it. When you do the math if you are starting from scratch I think the price between the two setups aren't that much different however. The 4L80 I believe will give you a higher final drive ratio, but the Gear Vendor's add on unit allows for more gear splitting adjustment. I know it's not what you wan't to here, but even with all the new hardened parts available for both the 200R4 and the 700R4 once you get to the 600HP level you are starting to push the limit. I know most companies that sell them say they will withstand up to 700HP and torque, but my tranny builder who I trust without question says there is no way either one of those transmissions will take the abuse of drag racing for an extemded period of time. Hope this will help you make an informed tranny decision and please do your research and get the proper converter for your new setup. You can have a tranny that is as tough as nails, but if the torque converter is not right you will leave a lot of power on the table and be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72MC Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I will add to what Greg has stated about the full manual 4L80. I have one and it is built to withstand 800-900 hp at the rear wheels. Thats great. I love this tranny. I get to up-shift and down-shift everything with no clutch. Yes, it took some getting to used too. But, it is 3-4" longer than a TH400 and will require some fab work to fit under a Monte. This includes a combination of either locating the tranny mount support rail UNDER the frame or relocating the frame support square that resides in the middle of the frame rail. The Monte frame rail has a support welded right at the end of where a th400 will fit on the rail. I have heard of guys using gear vendor units on stout built th350 and th400 and they love the set up. Just something to think about. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks guys for the info and opinions. Since money at the moment is pretty much done, and winter will be here soon. Im gonna roll with the bowtie until winter, then decide on which way to go. Looking around the net, I found a guy (art carr) that suppose to building these 200's to handle 1000hp. Not sure how accurate that is. I was actually getting used to the car without the overdrive and 3.73 gear. If worse comes to worse and I run into bad luck with breaking the 200. It may be aliitle cheaper to build up a TH400 or 350, and go back to not doin the Overdrive. Its a speculation right now, For the next few months, I'll cruise it around, and come time to put it away, I'll figure out the best move. This way since it will be winter, I wont be gunhoe wanting to drive the car. Right now, I'm pretty antsy to drive her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Camshaft came today. I'm excited. Didn't receive the lifters yet. Maybe tomm. Once I get them, I'll get this thing degreed in. Then friday finish assembling the heads at the machine shop, check pushrod length, call Chris back and have him send the correct length, She's coming together. I think I also may have sold my air-gap, so I'll be looking to get the victor jr like chris straub advised me to. I'm about ready to stand on the corner to pay for all this. (I might be able to buy a quart of oil by the days ends) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 well hang in there, you're on the home stretch now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 After reading all this, I'm anxious to hear how the car drives when its done! Davey advised me to spring for a cam when I was building my 502 and now I kinda wish I had - but the costs were spiraling out of control. When I do, down the road, I'll be giving Chris a call too. With that much lift, how much low end torque will be lost and what stall speed is needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Chris is telling me this thing will have excellent low end, very crispy throttle response, sound good, and will be a rocket. I told him I wanted to do atleast 115 to 118 mph. He tells me with this cam, I should do 120+ in the 1/4. Im excited to know what its going to do as well. I feel you on the spiral outta control expenses. I acutally went about 1500.00 over the budget. I'll slowly get it back, but I feel long as the combo comes together and runs the way I want, it will be well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Chris will actually build torque with duration timing events and LSA. With Mariano's big heads that's why the duration numbers are conservative. My motor with a slightly bigger version of that cam is going past 600 ft lbs by 3600.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sounds great! Are you going to keep that 850 vac carb or is that temporary until the budget permits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Any builder can make a claim that their tranny will hold 1,000HP(for one run) and that isn't false advertising. Art Carr from what I've heard is a reputable company, but seriously do your homework. Go to the track and see if anyone is running a 200R4 and if so how long has it held up and how many times did the owner have to have someone rebuild it. My gut tells me that more than likely at what will be your power level there will be no one drag racing with a 200R4. You might find a couple 700's, but at over 600HP they didn't last for more than a full season of continuous racing every weekend. Racers will give you the skinny on what holds up and what doesn't. Numbers on a website, or statements made during a phone call don't mean squat. Remember what Fram used to say "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later". In the end it's your money and you have to live with the results. If you are going to race I can tell you that vacumn secondary carb isn't going to cut it. I know you keep saying you are on a budget, but this isn't a race to get it race ready. When it's done it's done no matter how long it takes. As always JMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 To be very honest with everyone. I will probably go to the track only once to get an idea of what the car will do in the 1/4 mile. At the most twice. The track is over an hour away, and with my 2year old daughter, I see us doing all cruising around town, goin to car cruises, highway driving and such. However when she is not with me (rarely). I wont be able to resist some spirited driving on the straightaways, getting the highway, taking a friend for a ride. So all in all, I'm goin to be an honest 90% car cruise, highway driving, cruising around town, 8% spirited driving when I dont have my daughter, 2% making the drive up to the track. I'm goin to give the 850 vac secondary carb a try, the way Chris talks this engine should be very responsive, unlike the last engine which was a little lazy down low. If I feel the carb is not up to par, I'll look into the carb you suggested to me in the previous post. I actually feel like I kinda over did it on the engine, being its goin to be a street cruiser for the most part, but the drag racer in me (from previous years) wanted to know, that it will have something there waiting to be unleashed when I am able to step into it. I was on a budget with the engine, but that has long passed, For now I'll get her together, she how she does, then over the winter make the decision for the upcoming year on my thoughts on the tranny situation. I think with the tranny being the weak part on the set-up and me not wanting to break it, it will keep me behaving & careful with everything. As always though Thank you for the opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 So run the 850 vacuum for a while - it will give you the opportunity to upgrade later. It's never really done, we all know the story. And I'm with ya regarding the track - I want to see what the car will do, but can't do it on a regular basis. That 200r4 might last longer than you think if you run regular tires on the street with this thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlockMonte Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thats the plan, bowtie did tell me it will live alot longer, if the car doesn't hook and spins, which it will do on the street anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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