Andreas Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Show me the buildsheet. I have received an electronic scanned copy of the buildsheet. It shows all the real options for a SS Monte, including the Z20 code and the LS6 engine code. It also shows 3.31 rear gear ratio, which was supposed to be standard for a 71 LS6 Monte only according to the AMA Specifications. Can not distribute the buildsheet yet, though. The owner seems to be an honest guy and he wants the rest of the car be verified before anything is offically published... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr70Monte Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I to would love to see a LS-6 Monte, or even a 454 4 speed, but I have my doubts, i'd think if 1 or 12 had been built, they would have turned up in 35 years. Its always easy to say or hear about someone having one of these cars, for example the LT-1 Monte, but when it comes time to prove it, usually they don't or can't. Andreas, since you have a scanned copy of the build sheet, what options are listed on it? Also, without seeing the actual build sheet, i'd still have a hard time believing one was built, a build sheet would be easy enough to piece together to pass it off over the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Show me the buildsheet. My email is georgeprimm@cs.com That would be good, but have to see the original too. Nuff said. Looking forward the Decatur Convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wiles Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Kevin, I'll meet you in SC in a few weeks when I get the trim parts. Looking forward to my trip south. I found lots of parts for Montes in the junkyards along 123 in Easley for years. Love the South. ok sounds good. looking forward to meeting you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Any updates on this car???? Real deal???? Inquiring minds want to know! Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 OH!!!! copo pete, I know what you thinking, if we can prove there is a documented LS 6 Monte, then you can make your 71 monte that your building for the pure stock muscle car drags in to a LS 6 monte instead of an LS 5. Man I like that kind of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wiles Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 OH!!!! copo pete, I know what you thinking, if we can prove there is a documented LS 6 Monte, then you can make your 71 monte that your building for the pure stock muscle car drags in to a LS 6 monte instead of an LS 5. Man I like that kind of thinking. hey theres a good idea!!!!!!!!!!!!! haha!! that would be soooo awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 the owner i believe just joined the club , it will be 100% up to him when and how he shares the information on the car , i hope we did not make him feel overwhelmed or that we just jumped on this to hard , it would be great if this car was real and that there may be others out there but it is his car and his decision to share and it is more important to me that he feels welcome in the club Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mau Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 You're absolutely right, Leo. I believe that the owner of the Dick Harrell-built '70 LS6 SS454 was a member of the club for a year, but didn't renew. Why, I don't know - but if I remember correctly, he had computer problems and I never did see a post from him and I was really hoping that I would. Having members with rare cars like that is really cool. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 While visiting with Kevin Wiles I was able to see the buildsheet that was emailed to Kevin. While I didn't ask for a copy, please see if the owner will email me one. I did note where the car was sold, although the first letters of each line were cut off. Turns out that the buildsheet car was sold in a very small town in IL., which just happens to be where my family is from and most of them go to be buried. I contacted some of the older Primm clan and they confirmed the name of the dealership and even gave me a name of a person to talk to. If this is a legit car, I'd like to help document it. Please see if the owner will send me a copy. I just want to confirm. With the VIN and production date (which I remember from the buildsheet) I can contact a few insiders at Chevrolet to see if they can help us get some information to confirm. I can also search using the VIN and see the ownership chain. We can start making calls to former owners. Let's go !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Let's go !! George, I sent an e-mail to the LS6 Owner and asked him to contact you directly, if interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Just wanted to update. The owner was nice enough to send a copy of the Buildsheet to me. I compared it to my 1971 LS-5 Buildsheet and there were some irregularities, such as pulleys, which on the LS-6 should be deep groove. An LS-6 expert who is a member of the Northern Illinois Chevelle Club, Rick Pauley, examined the buildsheet and compared them to LS-5 and other LS-6 verified car / buildsheets. On Saturday, April 16th we met and talked and discussed the problems and there was doubt. Separately today I received an email from the owner, who upon his further investigation, has concluded that the car is not a legit LS-6. It was very honest of him and we had not discussed the issues we had found. If there is an LS-6 Monte out there, I hope it comes out. Spoke with the editor of the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) who is also in the NICC and he said there were 200 1971 Vettes. There were no LS-6 1971 Chevelles. So the search continues for the mythical 1971 Monte Carlo LS-6. Have to give a hand to the owner to say that his research doesn't support the "buildsheet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Wonder how they put together the 'fake' buildsheet. It sure looked darn real... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Quote: Wonder how they put together the 'fake' buildsheet I wonder the same thing. Maybe with a good scanner, typewriter and editing program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 NICC member Rick Pauley saw a buildsheet for an LS-6 convertible and it looked great, but they don't know all the special codes for the boxes and what numbers/codes these special cars have for each box. Rick relayed that he started questioning the owner about the code problems and the guy fessed-up. Used a scanner and using photo editing software individual letters can be "boxed" or highlighted and copied and pasted to other places. That is what this fella said he did with the LS-6 convertible that he cloned. Rick visits the FGMCC message forum and may add some comments, but with computers and the software available it isn't that hard. That may be why Chevrolet may finally make public what Pontiac Historical Services has done for hears and Chevrolet in Canada does now; authenticating cars via the VIN. I think that is good; the market will lower the price of the clones and the value of the true cars will increase. I don't believe there was an LS-6 Monte Carlo made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 another explination as innocent as it seems and a boring fact also is that the original build sheet may have a typo, but that is not a a flashy answer and we all know that gm never made a typo , put the wrong build sheet in a car,put 2 build sheets in a car , or never put one in at all , remember the build sheet has only recieved holy grail status in the collector car market in the last few money hungry years , and i have talked to many people who pitched them out years ago , if you have seen what i have in the last 25 years in the auto industry anything could have been built with any combo , documented who knows , vin id as pontiac historical society or gm of canada does is a great way to go , but i do know that many SS454 MONTES WILL BE SCRAPPED DUE TO LACK OF BUILD SHEETS , i have scrapped 2 this year that i believe are legit but why try to prove it to a buyer that does not want a car without a build sheet , so off to car heaven they go and their organs can live on to preserve documented cars. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Build sheets have been important for over 20 years, particularly to those looking to document an unusual car. Since at least 1986 they were important to Chevelle owners and continued with the first "bubble" in car values in the late 80's / early 90's. Chevrolet made it harder for us after 1968, when the Super Sport option was made an option, not a separate model # as stamped on the data plate on the firewall. There are no arguments for cars prior to that. They even marked what engine was in it. Oh well. There are other ways to verify a LS-5 Monte SS, a buildsheet is only the ultimate, but with computers that is no longer safe. Could that be why GM is going to make the records available, which I beleive they have always had the ability to do. I would never scrap a rebuildable Monte particularly potential LS-5's because of a lack of buildsheet. From the beginning of time the phrase "buyer beware" has been around for a reason. A knowledgable buyer, or access to someone who knows, is in a position to help preserve our cars. I believe the Montes are going to go up in value over the next few years. The importance of a buildsheet comes into play, for me, in two instances; 1). when an exhorbatant price is being asked, or 2). a car that has never been seen, or verified by the factory as being produced, is presented as legit. That is where it comes into play for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hansen Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Unless it was built in Flint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 i have kept more monte ss cars on the road than most people have ever seen , explain to me how to sell a monte ss with no documentation no motor trans or rear end with only a few tell tale signs that it is an real ss car that is rusted beyond belief and has a cracked frame and i will build my 5th garage to house these picked over relics , it is my belief that every member of this club could easily own a rare monte and save it ,SS cars are everywhere but only documented cars are worth investing real money into as you will have to prove the car what it is and most buyers of SS cars want buckets and tach option and many look at me with disbelief when i show them a bench seat column shift SS car , by the way just bought another bench column SS car to save from the crusher , it was posted for sale on this site and i was the only caller , as far as saving SS cars many who know me can vouch i have gone out of my way to preserve montes in general as well as rare montes , i have also decided to sell off most of my collection as i have came to the relization that i cannot restore them all or even mildly enjoy them , i have one car in my sights to do for myself a 71SS454 that i also bought off this site it is missing everything ,but the BUILD SHEET and the body stayed together, the owner tryed for 2 years to sell the car prior to parting it out then i came along and bought the shell, when it is finished i will call it the junkyard ss , as Bob stated above what is the fate of all the undocumented cars, i knew i might take some heat for saying i parted ss cars oh well they were for sale with no takers Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Leo, I get the sense that you took offense to something I said. No offense was meant. There are ways to verify the Monte SS, but if the frame is cracked and rusted beyond repair, there's not much choice. Glad you've saved so many. Keep it up!!! Interestingly, Corvettes used broadcast sheets for production but they were almost never put into the cars. They know from original cars documented from original owners and window stickers that it is real and use those as the benchmark. Those L-88 values haven't been held down by the lack of buildsheets. To me, the buildsheet is the ultimate; if it is an original unrestored car and the original owner has no clue on where the buildsheet is, I won't look for it. Oh well, let's hope Chevrolet does publish those production figures. Did run across an original owner, 15K mile 1971 Monte SS in Chicago from original owner's sister. Triple black; the sales invoice, dealer papers, finance papers, etc all there. That gave the VIN and the VIN was on the car. Not for sale as the original owner just died and the 74 year old sister wasn't ready to sell yet !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 no George please dont get me wrong sorry i post the way i do , i come across better in person , i just like a debate i guess, i just feel sort of bad that i told the owner of the 71 ss car that i would not discuss or post about his car until he was sure and came forth himself , now his car has been the topic of a debate, i tried to call him and to this date he has not called me back or returned my emails so i feel like i may have insulted him even though i did not start this post , and i feel bad as it is not the car you own but the person that owns the car that makes it specail ,that being said George i assure you that i can pick up from your posts that you are extremly knowledgable and i enjoy reading your opinions and please keep them coming , believe me i love a documented car build sheet , protecto plate , dealer invoice , car from Canada as much as any other collector , i just want to make sure we do not jump to hastily on this car not being real , or at least the build sheet if it is a fake or tampered build sheet is is by far the best example i have ever seen and i would question the originality of any build sheet , and George what have you heard about these gm records being released and when as this would be in my opinion the most earth shaking event to slam this hobby in years and i welcome it , as bad as the ss cars i parted were i would have saved them if there were any possible way to authenticate them other than my word sincerely Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Great stuff. If you were talking about the owner of the "LS6" Monte, I don't know why he wouldn't respond. He was nice enough to send me a copy; if there is one, I'd like to know, but I don't think there ever was one officially. There were definite problems with his. Maybe he bought it thinking it was one and now doesn't know what to do. On the GM records I don't know specifics. I do know they have the ability to do so. If they would just give access to someone to do the work, like the fella for Pontiac, I think that would go along way to help Chevy owners. Someone would make money doing it and the controversy would end on the car details. Oh yes, while no Montes were built with the LS6, Chevrolet records show that there were 6 LS6 engines designated for the A-body. Therein lies the mystery and the need to see and authenticate any buildsheet. I love Montes, Chevelles and Chevrolet. The owners are great. What I keep in mind is we are doing this because we are passionate about our Chevrolets; I love your passion!!! Let's hope we're still at it in the years to come, eh? I cannot wait for the Decatur, IL. Monte Carlo convetion and see some Montes. I hope there is a good turnout of 1st Gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 George i purchased a 70 350 4spd from a fellow club member now moved on , it has the factory protecto plate numbers motor and trans rear etc , with it came the retail order form with all ordered options , 3732.30 new ordered 11-10-69 now heres is the neat part , the owner worked for gm this was about 4 years ago , he was able to obtain a copy of a document with options like an invoice with all options listed plus rail delivery info etc , so there are still documents at gm to this day and i believe lots of them Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mau Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 That's cool, Leo. I think it would be fantastic if Chevy were to make information/documentation available like Pontiac does with its Pontiac Historical Services. Man, wouldn't it be incredible to come across a '70 SS454 LS6 Monte Carlo that could be fully documented by "Chevrolet Historical Services"? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Gargagliano Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Hey guys just looking at some of my old old Super Chevy Limited club magazines from Dec.1984.On the back cover where they show the readers rides is a picture of a 1971 SS 454 Monte Carlo.The description states that the Monte is a very rare LS6 model.The guys name is Robert Shewan and he lives in Sydney Australia.You would figure if the car was a real LS6 he would still own it even after all this time.Who in there right mind would sell a real LS6 Monte.Does anyone know if there is a way to search this guy out and see if he still has it,or find out what happened to it.I just thought I would throw this info. out there you never know it could lead to somthing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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