found a builder for my car heart

[Boots]

after talking with many engine builders I have finally found one that I am comfortable with this weekend...looking for some opinions here..he has suggested taking my mark iv 454 to a 496 level,,since everything will be done over anyway..zero decking,,heads planed.etc...As I am looking for a torque monster and there will be no track time or autocrossing ....is this a regular thing when building a fresh engine..why not a 468???

is there a BIG difference in the 2 over-bores??..will be using stock 781 heads..2 bolt main..haven't got to the cam selection as of yet..just looking for something streetable with nice crisp throttle response that will roast the marshmallows once on a while

[LostnFound]

Hey Bill....have you spoken with Terry at Terry's Engine Center? He has a great reputation and will give you good info and an honest opinion.

[Boots]

yes Larry I have..I have heard good things, but I have also heard some bad things too..I have 2 more builders to "interview" then I will make a final decision but this guy in Ajax has my confidence so far

[Sam (Bones)]

to make a 496, you will need a stroked crank shaft and different rods, do you need to replace your crank and rods?

 

if not build a 460 or 468 (.030 or .060 over bore)

 

a 454 will have all the torque you'll need, I am very impressed with the 460 I am currently running (9.5:1, .030 over)

 

the one thing i will recommend is to use a forged piston with a 454, a 454 based engine is very hard on piston skirts, I have taken apart numerous stock 454 and most I have found with broken skirts laying in the oil pan

 

and are you staying with stock valve size?

 

if so stay with a stock 4" stroke crank, the 781's are a good head, but with a 496 they would be to restrictive, I am using 049's with stock valve size, these heads are very similar to the 781's, 781's have larger combustion chambers, they will need machine work for the aftermarket valve springs

 

I like the Lunati Cams, although I am running a Comp hyd roller, got a great deal on it

 

Mike (Mike57) would be a great person to talk to too! he builds some awesome engines!

[Boots]

thanks for the response Sam.. as usual great advice...his suggestion is to "new" everything..complete rotating assembly (yes forged) maybe scat or lunati but he is very turned on to comp cams (although I have read about wiped out cams with flat tappet)...I will be going with a hyd roller cam and lifters...increasing the valves size also...we are talking in the 6k range as that is the average I have been dealing with here north of the border..I'm sure it would be waaay cheaper if done in the U.S.....even though I could get a good crate motor I want to keep the block..1973...aluminum heads would just destroy my interior upholstery budget

[Mike 57]

454s are great engines, but I like the stroker 489,496 that extra 1/4 arm really helps bottom end. As far as cost difference, Rods are usually resized possibly have rod bolts replaced. Crank may need to be turned and is probably cast. Forged pistons are the way to go. Just be aware that they are a little noisier on cold start until they warm up and grow to their running temp. I would find out the difference between a good rebuild on you 454 and the 496 and go from there.

[MGD72Monte]

Sounds like an interesting build, what's the goal? You mention a torque monster but no racing, are you planning to pull a big trailer or carry heavy loads or ?

[Boots]

MGD...no trailer pulling...this is for the monte...there is another member here doing almost the same project with both of us doing back halfs...however robert has gone with the pro street build with 33x18 tires mine are 29x15 on 20" rims mine will be more pro touring with enough power for lighting the tires up..Mike the rotating assemblies I have looked at are all forged complete with crank rods pistons rings

[CrazyDavey]

Boots good info from both Sam and Mike..they know their stuff...personally if you are looking for a torque monster then going the 496 route would be more ideal for that. If everything is suppose to be new then the price difference shouldn't be all that much. My advice would be with the cam. While the 1/4" stroker does help add some torque the real key is the cam. There is a lot that goes into cam profiles and how well they can produce and hold a torque curve. If you really are after max torque then spend some money on the right cam. If you're having head work be sure and get them flowed so you have those numbers. Then contact someone like Chris Straub at Straub Technologies and he can design a cam that will produce what you want. My 509 with 11 to 1 has a very small hyd roller from Chris and it produces over 730 ft lbs....

[Boots]

David...I have been trying to follow every build thread both here and on the chevelle sight ( as well yours..and THAT is alot of reading)..as I have found the boys that love their chevelles like to put the biggest motor available in them..I am not looking for something insane, just trying to work with what I have... as my education is limited, and not to the extent that you and others have, I must rely on what suggestion my future builder can give me. I have learned alot form others builds but I have far to go in education in engine math.

There is lots of body work to do so time is not critical..Can any body give me a approximate cost of doing a build in the states would be...just a ballpark??

Block and heads keeping..deck block,,plane heads....bore to 496 new oil pump, crank, rods,valves,intake,carb,cam, rockers,lifters....all the goodies new is 6k too much..seems about right to me

[Sam (Bones)]

you don't bore it to 496

 

the bore is .030 .060 over standard, standard bore is 4.250

 

so with a stock 454 crank, 4" stroke

.030 over = 460 c.i. 460.39 actual

.060 over = 468 c.i. 466.87 actual

 

with a stroked 4 1/4" crank

.030 over = 489 c.i. 489.17 actual

.060 over = 496 c.i. 496.05 actual

 

what kind of (approx) of budget are you working with?

what power level are you trying to achieve?

 

the stock 454 cast crank will take you well past 500 horse power, I would take one to 600HP

the stock rods with good NEW! bolts will take you to 6000 rpm, (mine see that frequently)

 

re-using your stock crank and rods will save you well over $1000

I recommend getting a main stud kit and having the main bore honed

 

as Davey said!!!! cam cam cam, Chris Straub cams are awesome!

 

I put my 468 with one of his cams into the 10's

 

then!!! do you want to run it on pump gas? (please don't tell me you run race fuel when needed, that's not how it's done!!!)

you design, build and tune a engine to run a fuel, if you change fuel, it has to be re-tuned!

with iron heads you will have to limit the static compression around 10:1 max!!!! this can vary depending on your cam and your dynamic compression ratio (duration and cam timing all play a part in this)

 

you need to decide what you want before you start picking parts

[Sam (Bones)]

and are you planning on using vacuum operated power brakes?

[Boots]

I have my hydro boost and mcpv-1 CPP master cylinder painted and set aside till next year

[Boots]

my first condition was pump gas only..power level?..well there was no real target..i just want to get some nice crisp throttle response and some get up and go power and be reliable...I will be going back to the builder to chat again on the specifics..and throw him questions regarding your responses here...I can never have too much info and opinions....I'm just a newbie sponging every bit of info...

I do, of course, want to keep my costs as low as possible ...looking for the best bang for the buck

[Sam (Bones)]

and what's the rear ratio/tire height you'll be running?

 

781's combustion chambers vary, knowing what yours are will help with piston selection greatly

[Boots]

ratio is open to any suggestions..tires are mickey thompson sport radials being 29x15x20...he did mention that he would cc the chambers after the valve job..picked up a 4l80e for a rebuild also..friend has a shop