patman Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 anyone using one? I've heard that there are new stronger parts for them and that they make a great trans for cruising and racing. thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I agree with Allan. With exception of the 4L80E all automatic overdrive tansmissions have limitations no matter how much money you throw at them. There are reports of new forged pieces for a 200R4 that make it pretty strong, but who is using one that has more than 500HP at the flexplate. A 700R4 with the same high dollar parts is limited to a max of 700HP. Neither one of those transmissions can hold up to forced induction/nitros oxide at that power level. If you have a power cruiser car with a big block that you are going to beat on once in a while at the track I'd still recommend a pro built 700R4 due to the cost and weight of a 4L80E, but if you have power above 600HP, blower/turbo, or NO2,have to have an overdrive, and are going to beat the snot out of it a 4L80E is the only way to got. The only other option is a Gear Venders overdrive behind a turbo 400, but you end up spending the same money as building a 4L80E. Just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I ran an Art Carr-built 2004R behind a souped up ZZ4 crate engine in my 86 Monte for 3 years and LOVED IT! If you are interested in this, make sure to find the real Art Carr, there are imposters out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 A ZZ4 is a small block and you would be fine, but I still say no way for anything other than a stock big block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 pssst... it's 200-4R... and 700R4.. why they're different i don't know but you might get some odd looks from people if you talk to a trans shop about a "200-r4" :> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I personally love the 200r4 when its built right for the application. The gear ratios are better spaced so you don't have that huge drop from 1st to 2nd like the 700r4. You can use the Turbo 400 crossmember holes on most early muscle cars. Look at this link - even though the 700r4 is longer, the crossmember mount is farther back on the 200r4 because the gear and clutch packs are beefier. http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/trans_dims.asp If 10 second Grand National guys have been racing with the 200r4 for years, they have to be decent. I've heard good things about the original Art Carr..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 You can use the Turbo 400 crossmember holes on most early muscle cars. you can with the 700r4 too.. i dont think they are the 400 holes tho.. I THINK they're the ones used for the 4spd stick cars. I use an early impala crossmember because I don't bother with the rubber insulators. and my 700r4 bolted right in. only change I made was shortening the driveshaft 6".. since I started with a TH350, my driveshaft yoke was already correct. as for the big drop in ratios, everybody quotes this.. and it's usually the people who don't use 700r4's. I picked the 700r4 specificly because of it's extra low 1st gear.. our cars verge on 4000 lbs with driver and fuel etc.. (mine was weighed 4,020 with me in it) the extra kick that 1st gear offers is awesome on the street. and even with 3.55 gears it's not a problem. I don't even notice a drop when it hits 2nd. except when my 1-2 shift breaks upper trailing arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 rock on allan my ultimate goals are 450-500 hp.. so I should be just under the line for a 700r4 to live :> and if it doesn't.. I think I might go back to my TH350 and a GV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 My boss is running a 200-4r in his 70 442 convertible. Slightly beefed up 455 in it, the shop did the trans up right, shifts real nice and seems to hold up to his abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 as for the big drop in ratios, everybody quotes this.. and it's usually the people who don't use 700r4's. I mentioned this because my daily driver is a 98 Trans Am with the 4L60E (just an electronic 700r4). If I nail it at speeds of around 30-40, it won't downshift to 1st because first is too low, and it lugs in 2nd, because its too high, until it hits the powerband. A loose converter should put a band-aid on this issue, but I never liked that slipping feeling of a loose converter. The 200r4 still has a good first gear ratio of 2.78 which is still a lot better than 2.48 for the 400. It would make my 3.31s feel like 3.73s in 1st..... The 200r4 vs 700r4 will always be a source of debate! My turbo 400 has been such a good tranny, I hate to ever give it up! In my opinion, its the toughest tranny out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Allan, 4L80E, or a turbo 400 with a Gear Vendors, doesn't matter. Both are almost indestructable. Why do you want to break my old tranny? It was good to me and was trashed hard on the dyno. Many folks didn't believe I had a 700R4 with that much power. I'll agree with the wide 1-2 shift ratio of a 700 thing, but if you have the HP you can pull right through it and you won't hardly even know it's there when you are really on the throttle. All are free to believe what they want, but if I had over 400HP at the flexplate there is no way I'd even consider a 200R4. I believe in overkill in every application. Just good enough almost always leads to issues down the road. If it's just strong enough and you want more power you now have to change your tranny configuration to support the added power. Where is the value in that? Turbo 350's and well built 200R4's are for 400HP small blocks and stock big blocks period. You don't have to take my word for it, but when it breaks remember what was said here. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Stroker - I have to address what you wrote above. I think we agree that neither one of us would put a stock 700r4 or 200r4 behind anything modified. But to say 200r4 cannot be built to handle the levels of 700r4 is just not true. Here's one company that makes them to handle 800 ft/lbs: http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RTRANSMISSIONS.html and there are others. Even GM chose the 200r4 in its 70 Chevelle resto-mod to showcase its 502 crate motor. Both trannies can be built for big block power, so then its just a matter of which gear ratios do you want and which requires less work to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Allen - you know, besides going to the Abacoa show, I never take Ol' Blue on the highway. I think I'll keep my 400 until it breaks and but at least a 27 inch tire on it in the meantime. As for you, I wouldn't worry about any tranny until yours breaks! BTW, aren't the 4L80s like over $5k???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Opinions vary. I only go off who I trust who has been building transmissions for over 20 years. He has built it all and seen it all. There are a lot of companies out there making a lot of promises, but with anything the only real test is having one, beating the snot out of it, and see if it holds up. No matter what tranny it is, if it does hold up you have a good one. Built it exactly the same way every time and you should be good to go. As I get older I just er on the side of caution. Experience has taught me that. A lot of years of wasted time and money and being burned has done that. In the end just enjoy no matter what it is. This is my last comment on the subject. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 as for the big drop in ratios, everybody quotes this.. and it's usually the people who don't use 700r4's. I mentioned this because my daily driver is a 98 Trans Am with the 4L60E (just an electronic 700r4). If I nail it at speeds of around 30-40, it won't downshift to 1st because first is too low, and it lugs in 2nd, because its too high, until it hits the powerband. That's wierd you have that problem with a v8. (I assume the T/A package is a v8) if it's the v6, I'm not surprised. my 4.3L v6 powered astro did the same thing. Quote: A loose converter should put a band-aid on this issue, but I never liked that slipping feeling of a loose converter. [/quote[ I run a 2500 rpm stall converter, and the only time I notice the stall is when I'm at real low rpm in 2nd gear.. it feels like it's slipping until I get up around 2200 or so. (I manually shift alot because my trans valving isn't right yet) if I nail it from 40mph, my trans won't even drop to 2nd. but with the kind of torque I make, I don't really mind unless I *REALLY* need to get moving. at light throttle my trans will shift into o.d at 30mph and my engine will pull the car along just fine. the 700r4 has a lockup torque converter, when that is correctly operational. the stall of the converter is just about unnoticeable. I run 2250 rpm @ 70mph locked up in forth and it cruises beautifuly like that. I choose not to use the lockup feature on the side-streets much because I do it with a manual toggle switch. The 200r4 still has a good first gear ratio of 2.78 which is still a lot better than 2.48 for the 400. It would make my 3.31s feel like 3.73s in 1st..... The 200r4 vs 700r4 will always be a source of debate! My turbo 400 has been such a good tranny, I hate to ever give it up! In my opinion, its the toughest tranny out there. honestly, I think if the 2nd gear ratio were lowered a bit to more closely match that 3.06 1st gear, the 700 would be truly spectacular... also, if you run a 700r4 with lower rear gears.. like 2.73.. 3.06 1st gear isn't that short. I manualy downshift into 1st all the time with mine, spin to 6k, shove it back into 2nd and i'm gone.. but i usually just smoke the tires in 1st so I don't mind not using 1st all that much ~ i run 3.55's. btw.. with your 4l60e. that's also GM's programming, you CAN go down into 1st and use it.. but for 'driveability' reasons they don't let it. Someone at GM decided that it's not what people want in their cars *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaman Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 All I can say is I'm going with a 700R4 because I got it cheap, still need a converter though. As for a 350 Turbo, The shop I had build my last one gave me an unconditional 100% parts and labor garantee, 6 months street car, 1 year trailored race car, that I could not break it. He claimed he put them behind 800 Hp BBC all the time and had not lost one yet... Of course he built the tranny for the "Grave Digger". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 i had a local shop build my 700r4.. $1200 out the door.. including lots of go-fast goodies 2500rpm stall converter, corvette servo, shift kit, 3-4 downshift mod, hardened sprag, kevlar band hi perf clutches etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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