Muncie front bearing cover.

[John S]

Muncie, four speed do the four bolts on the front bearing cover have lock washers, star lock washers or locking tabs. Pictures of Muncie 4 spd on eBay show locking tabs for those bolts. A couple of rebuilt ones have star washers. The two bottom bolts on mine were hitting the gear on the counter shaft. If someone has an answer, let me know. Thanks. Someone evidently did not have the proper tool for the input bearing retainer nut.
John S

[420ponies]

Holy Crap!! I guess not. All the ones we rebuilt(and they were many) used lock washers.

[jft69z]

A couple of the muncie rebuild places shows this bolt kit. Uses locking tabs. Seems to be the most popular choice.

 

https://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=199

https://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3864782/9454026.htm

https://www.musclecarcentral.com/1966-1972-Muncie-4-Speed-Transmission-Front-Bear-p/tra-870.htm

I looked at the ones I have in stock, of the 4 Muncies down in the basement, one of the 4 has the lock plates. One has lock washers, another has nothing (just 4 bolts), and the other is an empty 'dummy' trans used for fitment, but doesn't have anything on the front bearing retainer.

They were all rebuilt from a gentleman that was very prominent with the Muncies. We were lucky enough that he was fairly local to us and could just run out there when I blew another one up. He has since passed away.

[John S]

1 hour ago, jft69z said:

A couple of the muncie rebuild places shows this bolt kit. Uses locking tabs. Seems to be the most popular choice.

 

https://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=199

https://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3864782/9454026.htm

https://www.musclecarcentral.com/1966-1972-Muncie-4-Speed-Transmission-Front-Bear-p/tra-870.htm

I looked at the ones I have in stock, of the 4 Muncies down in the basement, one of the 4 has the lock plates. One has lock washers, another has nothing (just 4 bolts), and the other is an empty 'dummy' trans used for fitment, but doesn't have anything on the front bearing retainer.

They were all rebuilt from a gentleman that was very prominent with the Muncies. We were lucky enough that he was fairly local to us and could just run out there when I blew another one up. He has since passed away.

I found on eBay the lock plates from 5speeds.com. I bought them wait for them to be delivered and then install them. A number of pictures I’ve seen of Muncie 4 speeds on eBay had the lock plates on so that’s what I’m going to put on. Thanks for your help. For now I’m going to leave the retainer nut alone it looks like they’ve staked it in place and I don’t want to damage the threads.

John S

[John S]

I couldn’t deal with that butchered bearing retainer nut. I took it off got another one going to use the proper tool to put it on. After changing out the Tailshaft housing, side cover, and the reverse idler gear going to do it, right.

John S

[Marks71]

Good choice.

[John S]

I may be splitting hairs on this sometimes I get to be too much for perfectionist, but I’d like to know what some of you people thought is on this. The bearing retainer sleeve with the throwout bearing rests was worn badly. I recently picked up another M20 Muncie transmission for parts, so I switched out the bearing retainers. Same part number, but look at the pictures and see how there is considerably less clearance around the input shaft with the second bearing retainer compared to the original bearing retainer. Let me know what you think. The first photo is the original bearing retainer the second two is the replacement one.
John S

[jft69z]

I have 3 in the basement, I'll take some pics and measurements in a bit.

I used a spark plug wire gap gauge to measure the clearance. One was  0.080", another was 0.054, the third was 0.080"+, but that was also the one that is missing a lot of teeth (shown on the floor, they fell out when I rolled it over).

[John S]

1 hour ago, jft69z said:

I have 3 in the basement, I'll take some pics and measurements in a bit.

I used a spark plug wire gap gauge to measure the clearance. One was  0.080", another was 0.054, the third was 0.080"+, but that was also the one that is missing a lot of teeth (shown on the floor, they fell out when I rolled it over).

I have .30 on each side. Here is a picture of the parts Muncie.

[jft69z]

I just pushed the input shaft to one side and stuck the gauge in the gap. You planning to use a bronze or roller pilot bearing?

[John S]

12 minutes ago, jft69z said:

I just pushed the input shaft to one side and stuck the gauge in the gap. You planning to use a bronze or roller pilot bearing?

Bronze bushing already installed inside diameter of the bronze bushing .593 diameter of the input shaft .590. I used to dial indicator pushed shaft to one side, then back to the other .059 I’m gonna go with it.

[jft69z]

27 minutes ago, John S said:

Bronze bushing already installed inside diameter of the bronze bushing .593 diameter of the input shaft .590. I used to dial indicator pushed shaft to one side, then back to the other .059 I’m gonna go with it.

I tend to prefer the roller bearings, but its a matter of choice. How many miles are on that bushing? Now's the time to change it, especially if there's a fair amount of miles on it. 

That being said, i just measured a couple of bronze bushings i had in stock and they came out to .593 as well. A used one that was also in the drawer measured a little wider. 

It's not like the Muncies were exactly a precision instrument compared to a modern Tremec, with much tighter tolerences. If you were putting one of those in, I'd much rather see you go with a roller. They do require you to send them bellhousing runout measurements though, if you want to maintain a warranty. Makes sense.

[John S]

1 minute ago, jft69z said:

I tend to prefer the roller bearings, but its a matter of choice. How many miles are on that bushing? Now's the time to change it, especially if there's a fair amount of miles on it. 

That being said, i just measured a couple of bronze bushings i had in stock and they came out to .593 as well. A used one that was also in the drawer measured a little wider. 

It's not like the Muncies were exactly a precision instrument compared to a modern Tremec with much tighter tolerences. If you were putting one of those in, I'd much rather see you go with a roller. They do require you to send them bellhousing runout measurements too, if you want to maintain a warranty. Makes sense.

The pilot bushing is new. The one that was in there was trashed the best measurement I could get out of the old one while it was still in the crankshaft was roughly .725 I know things are more critical with a tremec regarding alignment. On the bushing versus the roller bearing. I guess that’s a personal choice I have read in some forums from people who prefer the bronze to the roller bearing since bronze is soft and if you tear up a roller bearing, you could damage your input shaft. Again, it sounds like a chicken or the egg argument. Chevrolet has used bronze bushings for a long time. I think it will continue to work. 

[John S]

Also, picked up a new throwout bearing today a SKF bearing from Summit racing. Never seen this before when I got home, I opened it up and the bearing would not spin. You could not turn the bearing like it was locked up never seen that before. Took it back. The returns guy at Summit thought I lost my marbles until he tried to spin it. Got another one this one spun easily. And when you spun it, it sounded like a dry bearing with a fair amount of lateral movement in it. Some of this overseas production stuff is not good. The throwout bearing I pulled out of the car with 12,000 miles on it feels better than the new ones.