EFI, Aluminum heads, electronic ignition, new exhaust. Anything else I need?

[Nick H.]

I posted here 11 years ago looking for advice on my dad's '70 MC, trying to make it more street-friendly. Problem was, I was 25 at the time, and simply didn't have the income to support the changes that I needed to make. So the car sat. And sat. And sat some more. It was garaged the whole time, and I've started it up every once in a while to keep things from seizing up, but it still needs some work before I'd consider it road-worthy.

I have made progress in my career, and I have the income to finally get moving on the car. I started buying parts a few years back, and I'm hoping to get the car on the road this summer if possible, just wanted to run my plan by the folks here for a sanity check.

First, details of the engine as it sits: 

• 468 BBC 4 bolt main
• 12.5:1 static CR (Dad said it had "12.5:1 pistons",  still don't know what that's supposed to mean)
• Closed-chamber iron heads - some machining done @ rebuild time, but I have no details. 
• Holley 850DP Carb w/ no choke
• Offenhauser intake
• Hooker shorty headers
• 3" dual exhaust w/ h-pipe
• Crane CC-314-2 cam (cam card details below):

  • Lift: Intake @ Cam: .3334 @ Valve: 567

  • Lift: Exhaust @ Cam: .3468 @ Valve: 590

  • Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.70

  • Advertised Duration @ .0136 Tappet Lift: Intake: 314 Exhaust: 324

• TH350 trans, professionally rebuilt w/ shift kit

• 3200rpm stall converter (I think? Not entirely sure, my memory is fuzzy)

 

The plan:

1. Replace heads w/ open chamber aluminum heads (still looking for these)
2. EFI retrofit - Holley Sniper EFI kit w/ Sniper EFI fuel tank (Already have the EFI kit, ordering the tank/pump soon)
3. Electronic ignition (Holley Sniper 2? Hoping that this will further mitigate detonation, but not set on the specific model, as I haven't ordered this yet)
4. Replace headers - Current shorties are shot, rust holes on primaries. Already have a set of Hooker stainless long tubes.
5. New mufflers - Current 3" duals w/ fake flowmasters is loud enough to set off car alarms from 20 yards, I'd like to be able to hold a conversation while driving. I know, I'm being demanding.
6. Serpentine belt retrofit - Not really for any performance purpose, just would prefer to only worry about 1 belt, and the v-belts tend to squeal on cold starts, from what I recall.

My goal: Get the car to a place where it can run on pump gas. I was told years ago by the mechanic that did the cam break-in that this engine requires minimum 105 octane leaded, currently run 110 Turbo Blue race gas (not street legal. This car is the opposite of inconspicuous - Bright yellow, 4" cowl induction hood, and an exhaust note that wakes the dead. 

I'm going to start turning wrenches soon. Hoping that this plan will be enough to run 93 octane without pinging. Car's been sitting for quite a while, so before I start the car again, I'll be replacing all filters and fluids. It will also need new tires before it sees the street, the BFGoodrich Radial T/A's that are on it are like new, but VERY old. Fronts were replaced in 2010, rears are at least 25 years old. Once the mechanical work is done, the car will be going in for body and paint work, probably next spring, and I'll probably pull the seats and drop them at the upholstery shop for new padding and vinyl (already have that too, thanks Dad)

My question is this - The original advice I received in 2013 wasn't entirely consistent. Do you think the plan I've outlined will succeed? Am I missing anything? Any other parts I should replace while I'm under the hood?

[jft69z]

Hey Nick,

Welcome back!

Seems like you have a pretty good path carved out. That compression ratio is pretty high though, possibly even with the planned open chamber heads. Ask questions from the cylinder head manufacturers that you contact.

Lot of people have had trouble with the Sniper systems, as seen on the Holley tech forums that I used to frequent quite often (haven't been there in the last couple months). Could be due to the sheer volume they sold, so problems are in proportion to that? They came out with a Sniper 2 that was supposed to address the issues, but I haven't followed to see if they are better. May want to join the Holley tech forums, do some research first.

I have the Holley Terminator Stealth EFI, with Aeromotive fuel tank/pump and have had good luck with that stuff. I also have the ECM control the ignition timing as well. Not sure if the Sniper systems will support that. Something to look into as well perhaps. Now's the time to possibly dump the Sniper, before you get too far. That being said, ask ten people, get ten different answers. FWIW, I have the Terminator stealth system on my Monte & Z/28, very happy.

Are you planning to run tail pipes? those make a big difference in noise/sound quality. I have 3"  Flowmaster Series 40 Delta Flows on my Camaro with big roller cam, etc. They sound pretty good thru 3" tailpipes. I have the Super 44's on my Monte at 2.5" all the way out back That system sounds good, but a much different engine (454 LS6) than the Camaro. I did try the Super 44's on the Camaro, but ended up with the 40 Deltas on that.

Some people here (Tom F) hate the flowmasters, but I also tried his preferred mufflers, and didn't like them, so it's a subjective choice. 

Post some pics too, we like a lot of them.

[MC1of80]

Yes Joe, you are correct, I hate the flowjunk mufflers. Lol. I personally like and recommend the ultraflo  mufflers. Way quieter and all the cars in F.A.S.T. run these mufflers. They flow way better. BUT... like you said, to each their own choice.

Here's a quick video. Doesn't really do the mufflers justice. Quiet inside, little roudy outside through tailpipes. 

[Nick H.]

2 hours ago, jft69z said:

Hey Nick,

Welcome back!

Seems like you have a pretty good path carved out. That compression ratio is pretty high though, possibly even with the planned open chamber heads. Ask questions from the cylinder head manufacturers that you contact.

Lot of people have had trouble with the Sniper systems, as seen on the Holley tech forums that I used to frequent quite often (haven't been there in the last couple months). Could be due to the sheer volume they sold, so problems are in proportion to that? They came out with a Sniper 2 that was supposed to address the issues, but I haven't followed to see if they are better. May want to join the Holley tech forums, do some research first. I have the Holley Terminator Stealth EFI, with Aeromotive fuel tank/pump and have had good luck with that stuff. I also have the ECM control the ignition timing as well. Not sure if the Sniper systems will support that. Something to look into as well perhaps. Now's the time to possibly dump the Sniper, before you get too far. That being said, ask ten people, get ten different answers. FWIW, I have the Terminator stealth system on my Monte & Z/28, very happy.

Are you planning to run tail pipes? those make a big difference in noise/sound quality. I have 3"  Flowmaster Series 40 Delta Flows on my Camaro with big roller cam, etc. They sound pretty good thru 3" tailpipes. I have the Super 44's on my Monte at 2.5" all the way out back That system sounds good, but a much different engine (454 LS6) than the Camaro. I did try the Super 44's on the Camaro, but ended up with the 40 Deltas on that.

Some people here (Tom F) hate the flowmasters, but I also tried his preferred mufflers, and didn't like them, so it's a subjective choice. 

Post some pics too, we like a lot of them.

I have heard the same about the Sniper EFI from someone else I was talking to about this, but they suggested that I may be better off just sticking with the carb, and that my low efficiency is likely caused by a poorly tuned/adjusted carb or ignition. The Sniper setup I bought is still in the box, I haven't started the install yet. I may try to recoup some of my money, it was a pretty expensive setup, but I'd rather "buy once, cry once" as they say. I was planning to go with EFI and electronic ignition, in the hopes that the combination would help reduce detonation more effectively. It's already got an MSD electronic distributor, but that's just a standalone ignition setup that was supposedly "top-of-the-line"... 30 years ago. I'm going to list the Sniper EFI kit for $900obo, see if I get any interest. I paid just under $1,400 shipped in 2021, but it sells for $1,200 now, so I figure 25% off is probably the best I can hope for out of it. I just don't know nearly enough about this kind of thing to really make the best decisions on my own. I can fix just about anything on a car, but engine building is something I've got zero experience with. 😭

I currently have tailpipes that dump shortly after the rear axle. I'd consider extending the tailpipe either out the rear, or out the side just ahead of the rear bumper. The car sounds good, it's just SUPER loud. The stereo (factory single-speaker AM/FM/8-track) is useless with the engine running, and carrying a conversation is impossible. It's likely that I'll pull the interior to install some Dynamat or similar sound deadening material, that should help a bit, but I'm hoping to stop setting off my neighbor's car alarms by driving down the road (with a 3200rpm stall converter, there's no way to "idle" down the road sadly)

I'm going to do some more research on EFI setups, and I'll reach out to the manufacturers I've been looking at for heads, and see what they suggest. I'm leaning toward a port EFI system instead of TBI, but if I can get this beast to run on pump gas with the current carb, it's likely I'll just go that route.

Old pics are in the linked thread above, the car hasn't really changed much since then, unfortunately. I'll be grabbing more pics along the way though, and I'll be sure to share them here!

Edited April 12 by Nick H.

[Leghome]

I have the Holley Sniper on my 350 small block and love it once we got it dialed in after some fouling of the O2 sensor from bad valve seals, new aluminum heads are going to help. Compression should be in the neighbor of 9.3 to 1 so 87 pump gas should be fine according to the local engine gurus. The ProMaxx heads are a 72cc chamber with a 185 runner old stock heads were 76cc and 180 runner. This should give a very nice cruiser setup

 

[jft69z]

There's a guy in Florida that's very helpful and knowledgeable with the Holley EFI stuff. I've bought some stuff from him in the past, not full systems though. They have a  lot of custom harnesses for the EFI stuff too.

Just got an email today in fact from him about a lot of stuff going on with Holley.

.May be worth calling him up, pick his brain.

https://www.efisystempro.com/?goal=0_9220bdb74c-791ab25a7b-161416660&mc_cid=791ab25a7b&mc_eid=a1e33acca5

Chris Myer
chris@EFISystemPro.Com
321-720-4388 Cell

[Marks71]

I see they’re discontinuing the Hilborn line. Another piece of history going by the wayside.

[jft69z]

2 hours ago, Marks71 said:

I see they’re discontinuing the Hilborn line. Another piece of history going by the wayside.

There's about 8000 part numbers they're retiring, or something like that. I'll copy/paste the email tomorrow. 

[jft69z]

29 minutes ago, jft69z said:

There's about 8000 part numbers they're retiring, or something like that. I'll copy/paste the email tomorrow. 

Below is the email I got from Chris, regarding Holley parts, prices. Clicking the link that mentions the 'Spreadsheet of all 8201' part numbers will actually get you the list as a download. I looked at it briefly, but it's big.

 

 

Usually there is not too much in our business that is truly "newsworthy".  Sure, new products come out, some that are quite innovative.  But generally, nothing that competes with what the 24-hour news cycle is throwing at us.  And that's a good thing! But I wanted to give you some insight on something that is going on at Holley that may be worthy of your attention.  Their new CEO has been on the job for almost a year and apparently has moved from analysis to action.  Holley has identified more than 34 thousand part numbers for obsolescence.  Most of these have already been removed from inventory but there are yet over 8 thousand parts that remain in stock and have been tagged for immediate clearance.  And the pricing they set shows they are serious about clearing these out right away. EFI systems have certainly been affected by this decision.  While the most popular systems will not be discontinued or discounted there are some GREAT products that are going to be discontinued and blown out simply due to their sales numbers.  Take, for example, the original Sniper EFI System in gold.  Strong performer, but in a color appreciated by fewer buyers.  It is currently on sale for it's normal price, $1291.95.  On Monday, the price on our website drops by almost $400 to $904.36.  Or perhaps you'd been dreaming about a Sniper 2x4 EFI System but balked at the $2,353.95 price tag.  On Monday, the price on EFI System Pro is 1647.76--a reduction of over $700. A couple of important notes.  First, every part affected by these price reductions is offered "while supplies last".  When the last one is sold, that's it.  They are obsolete and no more will be made. Second, in some cases, we are offering even greater savings than Holley.  They have removed our pricing restrictions and are letting us set the prices as we see fit.  So, for example, the magnetic pickup ignition harness that has already dropped from $81.95 to $53.37 will drop to $40.16 on Holley's website on Monday...and to $39.15 on EFI System Pro.  Less than half price! Because we do offer all the 8 thousand items slated for clearance, and since we don't have all of them on the website, there are two ways to see everything.  You can, of course, visit Holley.Com on Monday and sift through their website.  Or, for geeks like me, I've created and posted a spreadsheet of all 8201 products on clearance, along with their price and the quantity in stock.  Either way, when you find something too cheap to pass up, just email a note and we'll get things rolling.  As always, we're offering free shipping and no sales tax to shipments outside of Florida. Thanks for reading my longer-than-normal email.  It is challenging to fit in all of details of news this big in just a few paragraphs.  Consider this notification my way of appreciating you for subscribing to my mailing list.  Happy shopping!

--  **Remember, no one is as passionate about or as able to guarantee the success of your EFI project as EFISystemPro.Com! Chris Myer chris@EFISystemPro.Com 321-720-4388 Cell

[Marks71]

I knew of a few of the companies they owned, but not to that extent. That was an eye opener. A lot of bargains.

[jft69z]

33 minutes ago, Marks71 said:

I knew of a few of the companies they owned, but not to that extent. That was an eye opener. A lot of bargains.

Looks like 'Earl's' and Proforged really took a hit.