72MC Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 thanks Dave...it was just the instructions that came with the box....(wiring diagram)... yeah Dal was on fire Saturday...I thought I did really good pulling back to back .005's...then he pulled 2 perfect lights and qualified number 1 in both classes (not a fluke, he does it a lot, he is running a brake though)...qualifying is a big deal, number 1 gets you 50 bonus points.... how competitive is this series? my .005 was only good for 5th in one class and 9th in the other.....geez.... Sweet. Glad I keep all instructions for everything. Davey, you DID do good with back to back .005. I find I like striving to beat the guys ahead of me rather than holding off the guys who want to knock me off. Keep pushing, you're doing great. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks Davey. That actually makes perfect sense to me know that I think about like that. You're doing great. Good luck! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 thanks Dave and Steve.... yeah Jim the blue wire should be it....as long as the converter is loose enough to allow the brakes to hold the car it should work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think I will do this too. I'm going to tie it into my line lock switch so I can have my foot off the brake. Then release button which kills the line lock and rpm limit. Dave, it looks like you still hold the brake with your foot? I watch my cousin launch off a trans brake and it's just too easy. This would be the next best thing without all the trans brake shock. I have to see if I can hold the car at 2000 rpms with just the line lock. I tried some different launch RPM's last weekend, at 2800 it will actually push the front tires...but it does flash to 4000. I might need to install a 2nd line lock for the back brakes to help hold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Justin I totally agree with the shock thing. I was thinking of going to a brake but the way this thing works now I don't think that's necessary. I might be giving up something by loading up the converter but the consistency I get is worth it. No doubt a brake might be a tick quicker (I could launch higher with a brake) but again I don't think the shock is worth it. I have no trouble holding it with the foot brake but I have a lot more converter too (5200) so I'm sure that helps. it's a ton of fun too, just let my right thumb slip off the button and off she goes....you will be amazed at the difference in reaction time, I have to be very careful how I stage the car now to keep from going red... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Right, but what I'm saying is you have to take your foot off the brake at the same time you release the button, correct? I want to hold the car on the line with the line lock only, so when you release the button it releases the brake and the rpms go. Only using the button, no foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 correct...thankfully I'm coorodinated enough to do that... ...what you want to do is what Dave Breese is going to do too...I just don't have a line lock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I took the car out to see what this would be like. I don't think think tying the line lock to the 2 step going to work. In order for the front brakes to be able to hold, even at 2k rpms, you really have to push the pedal HARD. It will hold it, but there is quite a delay from the time you release. Noticable, as in probably a half second. (remember, we are talking about hundreths in reaction times) You need much less brake pressure to hold it on the line with the pedal. The brakes don't release fast like a transbrake... It's tough to exactly tell on the street if it will work well enough on the track, when the engine is under full power. With the slicks and WOT, maybe the delay will not be noticed. Maybe Dave B's will work better, perhaps my line lock releases slower than his...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 actually we are talking thousands of a second in reaction time to be competitive, last time out a .005 got me #9 on one qual list... ....like I said I think a lot of it has to do with what converter you're dealing with, mine is an all out 8" 5200 so holding the car is not a problem. When you release the button the car is going to go regardless of your timing when you're footbraking so in my particular situation it's a non-issue. I think maybe the converter also reacts differently when you mash the gas verses slowly going up to 2000 on the converter...so it's hard to simulate...that's just a guess though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I don't think the converter is the issue, I think it's the line lock/brakes. Simple test, hold the car at 2k with the brake pedal, just enough so that it doesn't move. Let off the brakes and moves instantly. Do the same with the line lock, and there is a significant delay before it moves.... Breese, can you try it and see what yours does in that test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I have played around with LL and it will hold my car at 2k without issue. I bought a good micro switch button when I originally installed my LL about 5 years ago. When I let the button go it is quick to release the front brakes. I don't notice any delay.I think it is not uncommon for people to wire in their T-brake and LL together so the car doesn't roll the beams when staged. With that being said my LL solenoid gave up the ghost. Dead short in the noid. Gonna order a new one and two step and install it this winter while the converter is out for a freshen up and re-stall. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 What brand did you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Would you believe a Summit model. Worked great until I went to the track last time and quit working. Think I only paid $35.00 for it 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I don't have a digital 6 ignition, just the old style 6AL, but they have a 2 step which uses a pill for these. One nice thing is they have a low RPM adjustable pill, so you could get down to 1000 RPMs... MSD adjustable pill and 2 step for old 6al My only concern would be if it pulls from all different cylinders like the new one, to avoid crank damage at the low RPMs...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sorry Justin I may have been confused as to what yo were asking. The LL is a summit. I have a 6al box that I haven't installed. I saw the adjustable pill you can use on the two step . I'm guessing when you plug two step into the 6al and activate the two step that the limiter circuit in the 6al would function the same by dropping different cylinders. My e-curve distrbutor has an adjustable rev limiter built in so I would be using the limiter circuit in the 6al for the two step only. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sorry Justin I may have been confused as to what yo were asking. The LL is a summit. I have a 6al box that I haven't installed. I saw the adjustable pill you can use on the two step . I'm guessing when you plug two step into the 6al and activate the two step that the limiter circuit in the 6al would function the same by dropping different cylinders. My e-curve distrbutor has an adjustable rev limiter built in so I would be using the limiter circuit in the 6al for the two step only. David No, I understood. I am using a cheap Biondo. I'm wondering if a more expensive one like a Hurst would have a quicker release time. I might also try a microswitch off the brake pedal with a selector for mode. So operation with my shifter mounted button would be: toggle in pos 1 for burnout, line lock works as normal via shifter button. Toggle in pos 2, shifter button is wired in series with foot brake micro switch and supplies 12vdc to 2 step only. This would allow you to do the burnout as normal with the line lock, then flick a switch, pull up to the line, stage (brake pedal down as you always would footbrake race) hit and hold the button on the shifter and mash the gas. As soon as you lift off the brake pedal, it goes. Then you can let off the shifter button and continue the race. The 2 step would never be able to work unless both the brake pedal and shifter button were depressed. As far as the high end limiter, that is about how I currently run it. I don't have a pill plugged into the 6AL, I use the rev limiter on my Ecurve for the high end limit also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I took the car out again to try a few things. Holding at 2k with just the line lock (you really have to jam the pedal hard) and releasing off the button, there is a delay before movement. Holding at 2k rpms with the pedal, and releasing you get instant movement, however there is a delay in the brake switch, the brake booster must hold the pedal from coming back quickly. So the lights stay on for that split second also. Therefor, I don't think an additional switch off the brake pedal would be effective either. I tested one of my Harleys for electrical response time when releasing the brake. They use a pressure switch in the brake line to run the brake lights. Those seem to work instantly as soon as you release the brake. I'm thinking now a pressure switch in the brake line is going to be the only way to get it to react fast enough, but I would like to install one and see how quick it really is. I think a latching relay would also be better on the shifter button, then you just stage, hit the button once (with the brakes pushed down) and once you lift off the pedal that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I imagine the line lock delay isn't an electrical problem, but a flow restriction internally? How does the LL work inside? is it a needle valve, or a ball valve, or a check ball...? I've never inspected one close-up. We used to use Mico brake system with our tow trucks to hold pressure on all four corners for winching operations. I suspect either way, the lock is designed to hold pressure, but the release speed really wasn't a design issue. I'm just wondering if there is a way to bore out the inside to gain more flow without ruining the valve seat area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 well they've been around for 40 years, nothing magical about them. If all systems are in order they work great but I've also seen them fail and that can be a PITA and lose a race...still most all the serious guys have one, guess I need to look into one....so I'll be serious.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Here you go guys, this will allow you to leave off the 2 step and the footbrake, or the 2 step/line lock and just a release of a button. It will also have normal line lock functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Wolf Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I installed the 2 step yesterday and wired it just as I show above. It does work as I designed. The only thing to note is the brake pressure switch should be between the master cyl and the line lock. Too hard to really test on the street, since my car spins too easy, but I'll test it next year. The adjustable pill works as advertised. I had it as low as 1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Very cool. Thanks for sharing the results! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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