Pops Toy Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I have a 70 Monte, 355, 700r4 trans, and 12 bolt posi with 3:73 gears. New rally rims,(that I was told are bent but that's how steel rims are), brand new BF Goodrich ta's 255/60R/15 & Monroe Sensatracs (tires & shocks installed 2 days ago). I have a vibration, that feels like all wheels, at 70-75 mph. I tried to do a burn out and the whole car shook like it was going to fall apart and the next day new tires and shocks. My question is with the 700r4 and posi rear, do I need to do more to the suspension? I've been told that with the 700r4 transmission that I need to install a torque bar from the trans to the rear end. Does anyone know if there's a possibility of this having any truth to it or do I need to update suspension for posi rear? My main problem is not finding a good shop in Orlando, Florida and have been wasting lots of time and money. Any help is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I have the 700R4 in mine with no torque bar as well as many others here. Sounds like you have 2 issues here. The vibration at 70-75 sounds like a tire balance problem. If you can't get rid of that by having the tires rebalanced you may want to find a shop that can do what they call a force balance on the tires. That puts road force on the tires for a more precise balance. The other issue you seem to have is wheel hop on the burn out. That could come from many things. Do your shocks have enough travel? I've seen this happen when the shocks are topping out on travel. I'd look at those first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Toy Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'll try to find a shop that can do a forced balance. As far as the burn out, my car started vibrating as soon as the tires started spinning at a stand still and I let off the gas right away. I haven't done a burn out since having new shocks and tires put on this past Thursday. Could the coil springs play a part with this problem? It sits 26 1/2 in high all the way around from floor to wheel well lip. The car went from tire shop to interior for a new headliner so I try one on Monday and see what happens and let you know how it responds. Figured I'd get some FGMCC input during this downtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Scott is right about wheel hop being many different things. It could be from worn bushings in the control arms, it could have been your old shocks were wore out. I believe that rear tires that are badly out of balance can cause this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malyc Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Discount Tire has road-force balancers. I don't know if there's one in your area, but it's someplace to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Torque arms are Camaro items, not needed nor can you install it. I run these jegs lift bars and never had an issue with wheel hop on a burn out and I do lots of them. I hope you know that burn outs are hard on transmission sprags. I break the tires loose in second and go right to 3rd. I am assuming that your bushings are good in the rear. soft rubber bushings even if new will contribute to hop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Toy Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 How does the car ride when just cruising with jegs lift bars? I'm getting my car back today from the interior shop and am going to look into everyone's suggestions. I'll let everyone know what I find. This is a great club and I'm glad to be a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Bent wheels are not good and could be the cause of your vibration. I had two steel rallyes that were bent and they did cause a vibration. Had a bent weld draglite on the front years ago that also caused a vibration. Like stated above make sure your bushings in your upper and lower trailing arms are in good shape and mounting bolts are tight. This could cause your wheel hop issues. Good luck, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I had a 68 Nova with chrome reversed Rally wheels that had a vibration. Took to a friend and he found two of the wheels had a slight wobble to them. He had the gauges and setup to take the wobble out and that cured my problem. I would have never thought about a wheel being misaligned form the mfg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Rides fine with the lift bars on the street and they help hook at the track. Are your wheels hub centric or lug centric? Different balancing techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Toy Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 Here's what's been done since my last login. Replaced Rally wheels with American Racing Outlaw II 15X8 & BF Goodrich T/A 255/60/15 with road force balance, Monroe Sensa Tracs, UMI Performance upper and lower non adjustable control arm kit, and Lakewood ladder bars. Now the rear is bouncy but no more hop with still some vibration on the highway in the 70-80 range and the steering seems different(not in a good way). Took the ladder bars off to test the hop without them but now I can start a burn out but have to let off after a few seconds and steering still seems different. I'm thinking of replacing the coils all around, installing QA1 anti hop bars, and new stabilizer bars instead of installing the ladder bars back again. I don't go to the track so I think ladder bars may have been too much. Unless there's a way to use the ladder bars and not have the rear so bouncy. Any suggestions out there are greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Ladder bars are pretty good for straight line driving, but suck for cornering. The design clamps the rear axles and essentially makes the entire rear axle assembly act as a giant rear sway bar. The rear axle housing is so stiff it prevents one wheel from traveling up or down without trying to take the other wheel with it. In turns, this is an issue. The added stiffness in the rear creates oversteer where the rear end wants to break traction and cause a spin-out. Excess roll stiffness in the rear can be "dangerously unstable on high-speed corners". To quote from the book "How to make your car handle": Lift bars [ladder] not only prevent wheel hop, but they also provide an upward force on the body to prevent rear-suspension squat. They also push down on the tires, increasing traction. Lift bars are great for drag racing, but are very poor for cornering. The ones using pivots at the forward end try to twist the rear-axle housing when the car leans, creating a huge amount of roll stiffness. A car with these lift bars is virtually locked in a roll, and transmits almost 100% of the lateral weight transfer through the rear suspension. This results in rear-wheel lifting and oversteer. As for the vibration or wheel hop issue, does the car have stiff springs or air shocks/air bags to raise the rear end? Having the rear sit too tall or stiff can cause driveline angle problems and cause severe vibration and traction issues. All of these problems sort of fall into the "too much of a good thing" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Toy Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 The quote you supplied was very informative and makes sense, thanks. I'm not sure what kind of springs are installed. It has the same ones from when I bought the car 7 years ago. The shocks are brand new Monroe Sensatracs. The height all the way around is 26 1/2 inches from floor to fender lip. I was thinking of installing new stock springs all around with anti-hop bars from QA1 and new sway bars. I haven't done anything to raise the height. This all started with just having the vibration on the highway since I bought the car. The wheel hop on burn outs started when I had the 10 bolt rear converted to posi with 3:73 gears. Any opinion on anti-hop or no-hop bars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 My gut thinks the bars are needed to mask some other problem. I'd check the pinion angle, and the condition of the rear suspension bushings first. It's possible that the pinion is pointing downward and causing the vibration...and the axle is wrapping up on acceleration until the tires break loose then unwinding, over and over, causing the wheel hop. I'm pretty sure my stock rear has a pinion snubber on it, to prevent just that. (wish I could verify that) Remember, this is only the internet and I'm making guesses thinking that the wheel hop and vibration are related. It's possible that they are two different issues. I think most of us have traction problems, but not wheel hop. I just happened to have first-hand experience with ladder bars. I won't run them, but I think they look cool. The type of traction bars that use a rubber snubber (and a gap to the frame) aren't as restrictive to body movement and don't cause the adverse handling like ladders do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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