AndyBill402 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The other day I replaced the front seal in my 350. The old seal was leaking and it had worn a groove in the original GM balancer. I installed a TCI Rattler balancer extremely easily using the following method. I put some anti-sieze lube on the crank snout and on the balancer. Then, I laid the balancer on a heating pad and let it heat up overnight. I put a towel over the balancer to concentrate the heat. The balancer was too hot to handle without gloves in the morning. I lined it up on the crank snout and gave it a shove. It went right on with no problems. This method also helps if you've already got the crank in perfect position for TDC and you don't want the crank to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Good tip, although if you yank on the balancer after it cools down and it comes off; you may have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 TRUNKLID, Thank would be a problem, no doubt. However, the balancer is on good and tight. I can't claim credit for this idea. The guy who built my 383 shortblock told me about it. He said he's been using the "Heat 'n Shove" method for 20 years. According to him, "Works almost every time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Mine is leaking and has a grove, I want to remain stock. Are the sleaves any good? Do you then need a different seal? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 A new seal is a good idea anytime you take off the balancer. The only problem with the sleeve is getting it on without crushing it; install very carefully. Again it does sound like a good method, although I think I will stick with my balancer installer set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I would replace the old seal with a new one however is the seal the same part number / size or is it special since the sleeve changes the diameter. How hard (enough room) is it to remove the pan with the engine in the car? 350, stock manifolds, no A/C. Last time (22 years ago) the engine was out and I was younger. Thanks, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Oh sure, now open a can of worms... If you have number 1 and number 2 cylinder bottom dead center you can get the pan off. The seal is a PITA to get off and the new one back on; unless you have done it a couple of times, or have the proper seal removing and installing tools. If you take the pan off you still have the timing cover to remove. You can remove and install the timing cover without dropping the pan. Yet another can of worms though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 I replaced my front seal two days ago. It's the first time I've done it. Piece of Cake. Take a screwdriver and a hammer and crush in the edge of the old seal in one or two places. Tap the hammer a few times until you get the feel of it. I then used a "hook" to slip behind the seal. It came right out. The new seal is not hard to put in. I put some sealer around the outside edge of the seal (can't think of the name of it right now). I then placed the seal on the timing cover and used a short piece of 2x4 and a hammer to tap it in. Getting it started took a minute or two, but then it was easy. This morning, I'm installing another balancer using the "Heat and Shove" method. I'll let you know how it goes. What is PITA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 Never mind. I know what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Bruce, those sleeves are great. They should come packaged with an install tool of sorts and aren't hard to install. They are like a band of stainless steel just a couple of thousanths thick and they have a flange at one end. The flange end geos on your shaft first and you use their tool or a snug piece of pipe to slide over the sleeve and tap on the flange. This way the flange PULLS the sleeve into position: the sleeve is too thin to be pushed from behind. Once you have the sleeve in the desired position you peel away the flange, it's not unlike opening a can of sardines. The sleeve isn't thick enough to require a special seal. Use the standard seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Wallaby and Andybill402, Thanks for the tip, I won't even take off the cover. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Just a question for anyone who knows. When you install a harmonic balancer, how much of a chance is there that the seal will fold inward when the balancer is either pushed on or pulled in with a balancer installer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I've never seen it happen, make sure you put a little oil on the balancer and seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 The seal has a lip facing both ways if I remember correctly. The inner lip is the one controling the oil, and it faces inward toward the engine, and then there is a small lip on the outside that faces outward to keep out water and dirt & stuff. The outer lip is small: it isn't large enough to turn inwards and has minimal tension. With some oil on the balancer (inside and outside surfaces) it goes right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I have a harmonic balancer puller that also acts as an installer, I have used it several times with not a single problem no pounding or heating anything, simply revearses the way you remove it tighten it down and it installs the balancer with no problems. Get the right tool for the job, same with a seal puller. I'd be curious as to how hot heating pad gets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 It's not uncommon to use a temperature difference when assembling press-fit parts together. If you make a part on a lathe for example, and you design it to fit together with another part and never come apart...you design it with an interference fit and sometimes the only way to assemble them is to chill one piece and warm the other. Even if your engine is outside in the cold or in the garage overnight and your balancer is taken indoors, when you assemble them in the morning they go together much easier. The greater the difference in temerature between the two parts, the more pronounced the effect is. Any temperature difference helps, but you don't want to damage your parts. If an engine normaly runs at 200 degrees, I'd guess that boiling water wouldn't be too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 The heating pad I use reaches 160 to 170 degrees if a towel is placed over the balancer to hold in the heat. That seems very hot to me for a heating pad, but that's what my infra-red thermometer read when I directed it at the top of the pad. The balancer was too hot to handle without gloves. I used the "Heat and Shove" method last Sunday. The balancer went on a little over half way without any trouble, but then it hung up on the keyway. I used a balancer installer to ease it on the rest of the way without any trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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