Brodix Heads w/ my set-up. Good Choice???

[BigBlockMonte]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRO-2061001/

 

Hey Everyone, I may have enough funds to spend on the monte, and I was looking at these cylinder heads. I'm curious before I make the purchase, if these heads will be a night & day difference from what I got, and will it mesh well with my current set-up. Here's my current set-up

 

1990 4bolt main 454 block .30 over

Sealed Power Forged Pistons(stamped numbers are- (L2465F/14308-12-A)

Balanced Rotating Assembly (stock rods/crank)

1971 Oval Port Heads (6272292) I have the small valves 2.06/1.72

Comp Cams Dual Valve Springs (924-16)

Comp Cams Pushrods (7154-16)

Comp Cams Camshaft (.552 Intake) (.555 Exhaust)///Duration at .50" lift is (230 Intake) (236 Exhaust). Advertised Duration is (274 intake) (286 Exhaust) Part# is 11-246-3//Grind # is XE274H

Roller Rockers

Holley Avenger 770cfm Carb

Holley Mechanical Fuel Pump 6.5 to 7psi

Snowperformance Water/Methanol Injection (To raise octane level)

MSD Street Fire HEI Ignition

Taylor Plug Wires w/AC Delco rt43 Plugs set at .35

Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Intake w/ 1 inch spacer

Proform Drop Base w/ AEM 14" Filter Element

160 degree thermostat

Summit Racing Aluminum Rad w/Shroud

Hooker Competition Full Length Street Headers

700r4 trasmission w/2300-2500 stall

12 Bolt Eaton Posi Rear End w/Richmond 3.73 Gears

255/60/15 front 275/60/15 rear

15X8 corvette rally's

 

Thanks everyone. I'll wait to hear from you all before I make any purchases. Thanks again.

[Monte72Carlo]

I would say, a larger carb maybe somewhere in the 850-900 range and either a set of these heads or a set of AFR's. You will see a difference with these heads but with your smaller cam it might not be as big a difference as you think. Just my opinion.

 

If it were me, I would opt for a larger carb. Maybe one from Patrick at Prosystems (seems to have awesome reviews), I think thats who it is anyways. And maybe step up to a set of AFR heads or these Brodix ones.

[CrazyDavey]

I think I would agree with Garrett. One thing you don't mention is what is your current compression ratio? Second do you know what size combustion chamber your current heads are (maybe some one here knows from the part number)?

 

The heads you linked are 119's so if your durrent heads are anything smaller you will knock down the compression wiping out any gains from the larger valves.

 

I'm one of those happy Prosystems people. Those heads are going to cost you $2200+ and the carb would be less than half that. You'll get more bang for the buck with the Prosystms carb, they will custom build it specifically for your set up. My 1/4 mile ET came down 3 1/2 tenths frist time out with just the carb change. The guys name is Patrick as Garrett thought...JMO....Dave..

[Heckeng]

My vote is for the heads!

 

The 292 heads are supposedly pretty comparable to the 049 heads. Mike Lewis from Team Chevelle has a shop and has tested the Brodix RR heads as well as the new AFR 265 heads and I am posting his numbers along with some numbers for some 049's that Chevy High Performance tested. I don't know the fixture size that CHP used for their test but Mike's tests were done identically to see if there was a difference between the Brodix and the AFRs. Stan Weiss' website is where I got the CHP numbers. Those heads were stock 049 castings with 2.06/1.72 valves and 122cc chambers and their intake/exhaust flow CFM were the following respectively:

 

049 heads

.100"------.200"------.300"------.400"-------.500"-------.600"

59/52----124/98---188/128---232/152---250/177---264/187

 

Brodix RR Oval with CNC chamber option

.100"------.200"------.300"-------.400"-------.500"-------.600"

77/65----152/118---224/127---283/178---318/205---344/230

 

AFR 265cc Oval-comes with CNC'd chambers and some intake CNC

.100"------.200"------.300"--------.400"-------.500"-------.600"

75/64----168/144---252/196----307/232---339/248----350/254

 

Bob West in Springfield MO runs the Brodix RR Ovals on his Chevelle and runs in the 9's with this small port oval. Both of these aftermarket heads are awesome. What you need to look at is not the max flow of the heads, but the flows at all areas of lift. Even though your cam is not huge, it has .550 lift on both the intake and exhaust, and these heads put a whoopin' on the 292 heads' flow rates at every point of valve lift. Even though your cam is not huge, you will be getting lots more air into the chamber at all areas of lift. The price of the AFR's through Summit is $2200 with the CNC option, and the Brodix are $2100 without the CNC option.

 

The AFR's come with a 112cc chamber which could be too much compression for you. I have seen your heads listed with 112/113/119 cc chambers, so I'm not sure exactly what they are. The Brodix can come with 119, 115, or 110 cc chambers, but the 110s cost a little more.

 

Also, since the intake runners of both of the aftermarket head options are small at 270cc for the Brodix, and 265cc for the AFR's, your torque should be awesome, especially when combined with the increased flow and power potential.

 

Just my $0.02

[Sam (Bones)]

MORE CAM & CARB!!!

 

I like the AFR's, watch your compression chamber size!!!

 

I know the 2465 pistons have a pretty good knot on the top of them, I had issues with them and Edelbrock heads with the 110 chamber and you'll be appprox 11:1 compression, about 10:1 with a 119cc chamber using those pistons

 

I'd use a 950 from Patrick @ Prosystems

[BigBlockMonte]

Hey Thanks for the reply's back. My machine shop agrees with you all. so more saving is in the works now. only thing he suggested for me to save some money is take my existing heads and put in bigger valves. i believe the 2.19/ 1.88's. Told him I didn't know, I would ask on here. Thanks again

 

[wallaby]

I have been through this process also: I had the factory oval heads with big chambers and small valves. When it came time to have them rebuilt, they needed everything. They needed guides and large valves installed and the price quote I got was more than buying a set of iron Merlin heads that had all the goodies, plus better port design.

 

My machine shop also told me that to enlarge the stock heads for the larger valves, I would loose the factory hardening done to the valve seats. They said it was not possible to install hardened valve seats because the inserts would overlap in the middle. If I wanted hardened seats AND bigger valves (and save money) I bought new iron heads from World Products.

 

There are better choices out there for heads, and my Merlins have some exhaust port/spark plug fitment issues, but they work ok and are cheap. Something to look into if your pocketbook starts controling the project. Oh....the only bolt holes not included on the Merlin heads are the upper holes between the intake ports. The port design on the new heads hasn't got room for them. Not a big deal except those are used to hold the upper AC bracket. I had to install my AC without the upper brackets. If you don't have AC, it won't be an issue.

[CrazyDavey]

JMO, I seriously doubt, no, you won't be able to tell the difference with the larger valves (unless you're racing). If your heads are not in need of a rebuild leave them alone, save the money and focus on fuel and ignition, those are good street heads....Dave....

[Heckeng]

I agree with Dave. Your current heads are good for stock castings, but with any stock casting, you have to be very careful weighing putting money into them vs. buying an aftermarket set like Mark did. You can stick a lot of money into a set of stock heads getting them into tip-top condition but then you still have a stock set of heads with some minor upgrades. I say leave things as-is and save up for something else.

[680HPStroker]

I say unless you are willing to replace your bump stick to stay with the heads you have and focus on fuel delivery and your ignition. I'm a big AED carb fan. Call them up and they will match a carb to your application(770 is too small and it's Holley's lowest quality carb). After you get the fueling right with the right carb, pump(with a big block on the street and going mechanical anything smaller than 170gph is too small), and lines then put the rest off your time and money in tuning your ignition. If your 700R4 has stock hard parts you can forget it at this, or any power level for a big block. I'd check with a torque converter builder(I like Yank), but I think you will find your stall speed isn't going to be quite right. Off the shelf cams, carbs, and torque converters never perform like advertised. I'd dump the stock axles and invest in some forged alloy ones for piece of mind and your occasional track days. JMHO, but what do I know.

[BigBlockMonte]

you and everyone else who replied knows a hell a lot more than i do. I love muscle cars, but I'm coming from the import world. so your opinion as well as the others are greatly appreciated. thanks again

[Andy's Auto]

The Brodix heads you are looking at just seem to be way overkill for your combo. If you are looking to run 10's on pump gas they would be part of a great foundation. I am privy to liking the 292,786, and 049 big ovals. I have run as much as .630 lift cams with little more than chopping down the upper valve guides to clear the rockers.

 

Let them eat rice. Your combo now with a little more cam and a 150 shot of spray will put you deep in the 11's. And do not get me wrong, I have McLovin, an employee, friend, and a ricer guy who seemingly puts more miles on my 71 496 car than I do. If he can just get his mind around pumping the pedal twice before starting it then feathering it til it warms up.

 

Mclovins thing is a GSR with a big turbo that blows the bottom end out at will. Fast? yeah, the Acura runs 11's when it runs. But the bottom ends are his weak point.

 

Andy

[Heckeng]

I think the issue is $$$ and what his engine really needs done. If you are going to buy new heads, buy the ones that will do what you want them to do. If you want a performance based head for the street, get something with relatively small runners but that also has the flow rates that will allow for the power level you want. If you are going to build a set of heads with new valves, seats, guides, studs, guide plates etc, you will be more than likely wasting money on the factory pieces when compared to simply buying a new aftermarket head. If you have the factory heads and they don't need much work, by all means use them, they are not bad and you can definitely make power with them, but their flow rates don't compare with the new aftermarket heads unless you invest in some good port work.

 

I personally think the heads he asked about would be great for anything from a stock type build up to a 10 second bracket car due to the small runners and the very good flow rates.

 

The carb replacement issue is kind of a game of chance. There is a chance that his carb, while not a super fancy or expensive carb, is suited very well to his engine and doesn't have any major out of tune rpm areas, so a new carb might net money spent with very little improvement. On the other hand, if the tuning of the carb is poor, there may be lots of room for improvement like some have seen on the forum.

[CrazyDavey]

did you buy the heads yet Scott or are you still lusting.....

[Heckeng]

Not quite yet, but I'll be going with the AFRs

[BigBlockMonte]

 

Your combo now with a little more cam and a 150 shot of spray will put you deep in the 11's.

 

Andy

 

 

11's would be cool. Honestly I'd be happy if I could get the 4000lb girl to go mid to low 12's consistently.

[CrazyDavey]

Originally Posted By: Andy's Auto

 

Your combo now with a little more cam and a 150 shot of spray will put you deep in the 11's.

 

Andy

 

 

11's would be cool. Honestly I'd be happy if I could get the 4000lb girl to go mid to low 12's consistently.

 

that's how we all started out....

[BigBlockMonte]

I'd be happy with that. I've been from the 14's to my last car in the 10's. Mid to Low 12 second cars I feel are the perfect street/strip car. That's probably just me. My 10 second wasn't very much fun on the street, to fast. One of my friends has a consistent 12.20's car, and I think that is perfect for the all around car. Of course he's used to it and wants to go 11's now. I know it's a sickness, and I have it bad. But I'm pretty sure I'd be content to have the power to do those numbers consistently..