Ignition Lock Cylinder Problem

[MGD72Monte]

This is not about the Monte but my daily driver which is a mid 80s GM automatic with floor console and the set up of the ignition lock cylinder in the steering column looks the same as the Monte. After many years of service, some stiffness and slack seems to have developped when you turn the ignition lock cylinder. Most of the time its stiff but not too bad but when the temps go below freezing, it becomes very difficult to turn. The other day it was a -15C (5F) morning and I almost needed to get some plyers to get enough leverage to turn the key enough to engage the starter and colder weather will be coming

 

Any thoughts? I hate to have to pull the steering wheel and all the guts out only to find out it can't be fixed and I need to get a new steering column. I need the car to get to work. Can this be fixed? What about lubing it from the outside?

 

Thanks

[bobsmc]

my advice is to first check the electrical portion of the ignition switch before you tear into the column.

drop the lower hush panel down and then follow the rod down to the ignition switch itself[wires coming out]

unbolt the switch from the column after marking or noting the location of it[adjustable].

try and move the cylinder [key] and see if its easy .if it is then the culprit is the switch ,if not then its a trip to the inside of the column.not easy if you are not experience in columns.not to say you could not do it ,its just not easy.

start there and let us know what you find.

bob

[MGD72Monte]

Good info, makes sense. I've gotten into the Monte's steering column before for other reasons but only had to go as far as the turn signal switch assy as I recall. This would be deeper surgery. Also it can be more stressfull on your daily driver because you need it! So I will try the ignition switch first and hope that is the problem. It probably won't be until the Christmas holidays until I get in there. Hope the weather holds.

[montefrazer]

Lubing from the out side probably won't help, but can't really hurt. If you go into the column, here is some light reading for you.

http://buickperformance.com/tiltsteeringcolumnwobble.htm

http://www.chevyasylum.com/column/tiltcol.html

If you don't have tilt, the main parts that work the ignition switch will be the same. The first one is for our Monte style. The second one shows the later 70s/80s changes. Any time I've had a problem with turning the key, it's been the wire clip/spring on the plastic gear, left side of the column. Getting that plastic piece for the high beam to stay in place when putting it all back together is a PITA. Use lots of grease to hold it. Good luck.

[kc8oye]

it's really not that difficult to get to lock cylinder.. maybe an afternoon's work for someone who hasn't done it before.. I can be in and out in a few hours now that I've done it a few times

 

remove the horn pad.. this really depends on the wheel, you are on your own on that part.. remove it carefully so you don't break the plastic fitting for the horn electrical connection.

 

disconnect the horn.

 

remove the wheel nut.

 

use a wheel puller to remove the wheel, (you can do it w/o, but is it worth a trip to the dentist for re-constructive surgery?

 

with the wheel out, you need to press the lock plate down with a lock plate compressor.

remove the snap ring, I find a pair of small pics works best it's kind of an odd round snap ring and snap ring pliars don't work well.

remove the compressor and lock plate.

remove the large spring

remove the horn contact ring/turn signal cancel cam.

unplug the turn signal switch at the base of the column.

remove the turn signal lever

remove the 3 screws holding the turn signal switch in place, pull it gently towards you as far as the wires will let you.. then just put it asside.

 

tilt columns are slightly different from here.. but nothing major. the big difference is there is a screw holding the lock cylinder in place, not a clip. (this might be an 80's thing, or a tilt thing.. I'm not sure exactly)

 

look where the lock cylinder is.. you'll see a screw there. it's a weird head if memory serves.. a star drive. (inverted torx)

remove it.. and the lock cylinder will pull right out.

 

if there isn't a screw there, there is a very small slot. just barely big enough to get a jewlers screwdriver in.. i've seen it where the slot was plugged up with casting flash and I had to poke around to find it..

 

you need to push down into that slot evenly (may require two screwdrivers) to release the locking tab that holds the lock cylinder in.. it takes some work and tugging and pulling to get everything just right, but if the cylinder won't come out.. don't force it.. it should slide right out once you get that tab pushed in right...

 

then just put everything back

 

only thing to really watch out for.. the lock plate is keyed onto the column, it only fits in one place so if it doesn't drop right on, you are in the wrong place.

 

i forgot to add, the steering wheel remover, and the lock plate compressor are common tools that are easily rented from autozone or similar.

 

[Andy's Auto]

First, you need one of these, to get the big round thing off.

 

 

And one of these to get the little round thing off.

 

 

Timmay may have nailed it, but it has been my experience the cylinder on the old hooptys are held in by a little piece of metal that you push in with a small screwdriver thrugh a slot just east of the steering shaft through an access slot. After you put the cylinder in the "run" position, which can be fun if the key won't turn.

[bobsmc]

if the problem is internal ,i would think it would be the sector gear that has failed.this is allitle deeper than the cylinder.

you must remove the upper bowl and then you will see the sector gear on your left hand side.

its timed with the rack that leads down to the ignition switch.they are made of plastic and can deteriorate over time.

let us know what you find.

bob

[kc8oye]

Timmay may have nailed it, but it has been my experience the cylinder on the old hooptys are held in by a little piece of metal that you push in with a small screwdriver thrugh a slot just east of the steering shaft through an access slot.

 

Isn't that what I said!?

 

Quote:

After you put the cylinder in the "run" position, which can be fun if the key won't turn.

 

I've never had to do this... think about it.. how do u get a cylinder out with a broken key in it? or one w/o a key?

 

the much older dash-mounted ignitions require the key tho. like the impala's and chevelle's...

[kc8oye]

removing the bowl isn't that much harder.. just remove the multitude of screws holding it on..

 

it will make life easier if you remove the turn signal switch entirely, but that requires some work to separate each individual wire from the black plastic connector so that they can slide up through the column.

[kc8oye]

one summer I fixed about a dozen infamous 'wobbly tilt steering wheels' seemed to be a whole rash of them. .that required disassembling the tilt column all the way down to the bottom of the column and removing the four bolts, applying lock tight, and re-tightening them.. so I got pretty good at getting a column apart pretty quick

[Andy's Auto]

Sorry Tim, I got caught up with this.

 

"tilt columns are slightly different from here.. but nothing major. the big difference is there is a screw holding the lock cylinder in place, not a clip. (this might be an 80's thing, or a tilt thing.. I'm not sure exactly)

"

 

Got 5 tilt A body columns in cars. None have a screw.

[kc8oye]

ok andy.. no worries.. then it's an 80's thing... most of the tilt columns I work on are from mid 80's chevy trucks (the ones that seem to get the wobbly tilt problem the most)

[MGD72Monte]

Thanks for the continuing info. Fortunately the column is not tilt and it is a floor console shift so less complications. I don't know when I'm going to get a chance to tackle this, it was about 5F again this AM, and winter has not even started yet.

[kc8oye]

bring it down to texas, I'll be happy to fix it for you.. LOL

[MGD72Monte]

Thanks for the offer but I could probably buy myself a replacement car for the price of the drive to Texas.

 

Today as temps were just below freezing I decided to have a closer look. I lowered the column and was able to remove the ignition switch which sits on the top of the column. I don't think it is the problem, at least not on its own. With it removed I found the ignition cylinder a bit easier but still stiff so I lubed it. Because it was no longer connected to the ignition switch I was able to rotate it several times and it seems to be some better. I'll see how I make out when the temps dip down again. If not resolved, hopefully I can at least milk this until the weather gets warmer to dive into the column.

 

Thanks all for the input.

[kc8oye]

that's what we're here for

[wallaby]

Yea, most of the moving parts that get gummed up are on the inside hidden behind the steering wheel, so it's impossible to lubricate anything from the outside (except perhaps the lock cylinder itself).

 

Here's a pretty good collection of pictures on how it's done. Being older, yours is probably a little less complex, but generally it's the same. When you are ready, you can refrence these:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0908_gm_steering_column_repair/index.html