Aaron Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Any tips you guys can give that would help for a smooth install? I have no intentions of getting it perfect just now and will just hook up the big block to the th350 trans till I return. I expect problems in the area of the power steering hoses, will likely have to disconnect the AC for now, need to figure out how to power the HEI, and what changes may be required for the alternator to work. This 454 is out of a mid 86 Chevy. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/40123736045648064570710.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 here's a good post to read Aaron.... http://www.firstgenmc.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=244753#Post244753 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtankjones Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I did a 454 swap in my '70 Monte. Mine was a small block car. My power steering hose's worked just fine with the BBC. I also bolted mine to my TH350. No problems with my Install. My Alternator wiring worked just fine to. Bought so new brackets for a BBC and it works just fine. If you have any questions, ask away. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I got the 350 out in about 3 hours today at the craft center. I had no help, but that's ok cause it was fun and I made sure I was careful with the paint. Now the problems I still see coming is the fact the 454 is out of an 86 truck. The alternator pulley is wide and so is that portion of the crank pulley and the plug on the alternator looked differnet than my original. Maybe I could swap the fan/pulley on the alternator itself and use the older one. Next is the power steering pump is way differnet than the one on the 350 and the brackets look to be designed for the pump that was in the truck. I guess for now I will just unscrew my 350 power steering pump from the hoses and try to use the pump that is on the 454. I've got to go to the parts store tomorrow and grab motor mounts since they basically fell apart on the 350. Hopefully they have that HEI pink looking wire kit so I can run in to the fuse box for now. I was going to make a video of the entire procedure but ended up filming just short clips cause I'm in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Aaron, you wont be in a hurry now. when you get those motor mounts that go on the engine make sure you get the ones for a Monte/Chevelle as those 86 truck one's I'm sure wont work. the bottom Crank pully wont work off the small block either it has to be a BB one. the Alt you can get away with and reuse but you will also need BB Alt brackets as small block ones wont work either and the SB power steering pump wont work too. has to be a BB one and those brakets from the SB PS. wont work either all has to be BB I'm afraid.and the List goes on from there my friend...... Darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I quickly figured out I was going to be in trouble with the PS/Alternator mounts. I'm going to try and get away with leaving them as is, like the same mounts that were on the truck until I get more money and time to buy the proper ones for the Monte. The engine mounts thankfully are in stock at the local parts store. I'll snap some pictures tomorrow and show the progress. Hopefully I can get it back running by tomorrow evening and get it to the exhaust shop. Why I decided to do this several weeks before I leave... I guess I was getting bored sitting at home on leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy's Auto Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I quickly figured out I was going to be in trouble with the PS/Alternator mounts. I'm going to try and get away with leaving them as is, like the same mounts that were on the truck until I get more money and time to buy the proper ones for the Monte. The engine mounts thankfully are in stock at the local parts store. I'll snap some pictures tomorrow and show the progress. Hopefully I can get it back running by tomorrow evening and get it to the exhaust shop. Why I decided to do this several weeks before I leave... I guess I was getting bored sitting at home on leave. Aaron, hit eBay for cheap original brackets and pulleys. I just bought an alternator set off a 71 BB Caprice for $47 shipped. The PS brackets should cost no more. And the engine mounts? Swap the off the 350. A BB from SB swap is competely easy and a bolt in minus the accesories. The only true hurdle is you have to find away to tap into your SB exhaust WITHOUT the use of flex pipe, duct tape, or coat hangers. Not sure what you local guys charge but I usually do something like that for an hours labor ($70) plus materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If I remember correctly the power steering pump on the 86 pickup has a remote reservoir but the pump is basically the same except for the press on pully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I had a quick look on ebay this morning and didn't see much in terms of used, but I'll keep looking. If I change one pulley and or bracket I have a feeling I will need to change them all. I think I need at least the crank pulley, water pump pulley, PS bracket, and Alternator braket. That would allow me to use the old alternator with the skinny belt and the 350 PS pump in the BB bracket, right? I have to get it running and out of the craft center today to avoid extra charges, but if I can drive it five minutes back to the house I should be allowed to do a little work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Something like this is what I need. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY-...7f0&vxp=mtr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtankjones Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I mounted the small block power steering brackets to my BBC. The only thing i had to modify was to make a spacer to mount the one power steering bracket to block. I also reused the pulleys for the small block water pump and crank pulleys. I have no belt alignment issues. The only thing people notice is that I use the small block fan shroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well the 454 is in... What a huge pain in the butt, the factory header style exhaust manifold really needs plugs installed but after waisting hours trying to find them I just welded them shut. One of them touches the rubber boot on the steering column, need to fix that asap. I was able to get the SB PS pump mounted by using the truck brackets. I feel like I can get it running tomorrow, atleast I hope so. I wanted to kick myself after I opened the drivers door for just a sec only to realize I had just messed up the paint on the ledging edge of the door as it just barely touched the fender! Of course I had it lifted just several inches off the ground and forgot it was suspended on the lift. Guess that was just a nuff to tweak the body or the gap is to small to begind with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Aaron I did the same thing to my fender when I was changing out all 4 wheels and had it on jack stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I drove (at idle) the car home with just manifolds. Overall the swap went well and I made due with the brackets it had. Now I'm on the look for the pulleys/brackets and proper front portion of the fan shroud. I don't fell bad about the swap, cause I'm almost certain it was not the original engine and tranny. The tranny had the universal type bolt pattern and I think a true tranny for the car would have only been the chevy pattern. The numbers on the engine point to a 73 engine and also the back of the flywheel was painted orange. Seems strange they would have put all the hoses, wires, AC, and everything else all back in place. I'll check the numbers again before I sell the 350 just to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Turns out the 350 that I just pulled out is in fact a numbers matching engine. I went over to the shop and cleaned up the numbers and after research on line and comparing to my VIN on the car it looks to be the original engine. I'm not sure about the tranny, it had the universal style bolt pattern so maybe it was replaced at some point. I'll hang onto it incase some day I want to go back to a small block or incase I ever sell the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Congrats on the matching engine! I agree - hang on to it while you enjoy the big-block. Not sure what you mean about universal bolt pattern - the bolt pattern on your transmission bellhousing looks typical Chevy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I don't see a universal bolt pattern on the trans, just chevy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's hard to see in the photo, but if you look above the typical chevy pattern there is like two extra ear horns. I thought maybe it was one of those Buick/Olds/Pontiac type trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Oh yeah - I see what you mean. Looks like the transmission will work on BOP as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Found a better picture here, http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th350.htm "The top dog of cool TH350 transmissions is the TH350C Unicase version, featuring both a Chevy / BOP pattern and a lockup torque converter. Note the letter "C" cast into its front face adjacent to the pump bore." Would this be factory for a Monte Carlo? Something to note, I do have a factory looking black wire coming from the firewall somewhere and plugging into the passanger side of the tranny. I looked up this TH350C and it talks about a lockup type converter and plug located on the trans. I guess maybe it came factory like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think I need to do some more research or read the page better I linked to. The plug I saw was on the right hand side of the tranny and not the left. Anyone know what that plug/wire is for? I guess I just have the BOP type transmission, but it sure looks like the one in the photo I found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Aaron - I haven't seen a Unicase TH350 factory-installed in any of the Monte Carlos I've had or seen, but I've learned to never say never. Perhaps someone will provide a defintive answer. Pretty sure the black wire going to the passenger side of the transmission is part of the TCS system. TH350s with lockup converters have a switch on the driver's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks Bob - went and looked up TCS and traced the wire. Looks like it was plugged into the solenoid on the pass side of the SB. You mentioned the Unicase didn't come factory installed, but what about a BOP type tranny? I've been looking at pictures on google and the previous picture I linked to. I can't really tell by my one picture if there is extra holes towards the outer edges, only thing I remember was two extra ears towards the 12 position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 BOP-specific TH-350s would not work on a Chevy block, as the bolt pattern is different. Heres a link that shows the differences: http://www.teambuick.com/forums/content.php?189-BOP-Bellhousing-Identification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 From that link I gather I have the dual pattern transmission with non lockup convertor. Maybe it was dealer installed as a repair under warranty if it wasn't factory installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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