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Big Block (hoping for easy 11s)


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Hammer

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 02:08 PM

Just wanted to share my combination with the board and would like some feedback,suggestions,insults or cudos.
496 4.310 bore x 4.25 stroke,Eagle crank and h-beam rods,Probe industries forged pistons,custom ground Cam Motion hydraulic roller .612 int. .618 ex.lifts adv.duration is 304, duration @.050 is 235 int., 240 ex..The heads are the new Trickflow aluminum Oval port 280cc intake runners w/2.19 intake and 1.88 ex. valves 113cc chambers, that have cnc ported bowls that flow great #s ie 343 intake @.700 lift,and 265 ex.@ .700 lift.With very high low lift #s too.Crane gold roller rockers,Edelbrock performer RPM Air Gap manifold,BG 825cfm Mighty Demon,Moroso eliminator drag race oil pan( hope it fits the chassis).Static compression shoul be a little over 10.5 to 1.
T400 street strip auto valve body.TSI 10" 2800 stall converter. 12 bolt rear shortened 2",Ford nine inch housing ends,Moser 33 spline hardened axles,Strange posi unit,and 3.55 gears (yes 3.55)and an LPW cover.
Hooker 2" primary headers w/3.5" collectors(PN#2455).Torque Tech 3.5" exhaust w/ x pipe,Flowmaster super 30 series mufflers.
The 72 Monte has Hotchkis 1" lowering springs all around,Qa1 adj. shocks front and rear,boxed lower control arms and adjustable uppers.BFG 275/60/15 drag radials in rear,BFG T/A 235/60/15 up front on rallys.
My goal is to run an 11.99999 on the steet tires with full exhaust and I say boldly WITH THE AIR CONDITIONING ON!!!
What ya think?
sorry for the long post

#2 Sam (Bones)

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 06:38 AM

you should be real close, my '71 runs 11.7's, w/.030 over 454, edlebrock oval heads, air gap intake, TRW 2349 piston, approx 11.5 static comp, 2" hookers, 850 Quick Fuel double pumper, comp cams hydr roller w/242 & 246 dur. @ .050 turbo action conv. w/ approx 3500-4000 stall. If poss I would run more gear than 3.55,or a shorter tire or a looser conv. All of them if plan to spin it over 6000 R.P.M. your conv. is tighter than mine.a & I'm running 3.73 w/ 10x28 drag slicks & spin mine to 5900 R.P.M. See members montes, shows mine @ Mid Michigan Motor Plex (samuel's 71 ) Good luck Sam BB
Sam


70 & 71 montes

#3 JOHNR

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 06:03 PM

HI I was looking to replace my std. crank one day and I asked someone(who races) about the eagle cranks they told me.- I am the original owner of the crankshaft, it was in my car. The auction owner was unable to give you the answers because she is not me! I am sorry for the confusion about that. as for journal size, she asked me but as was stated I was not sure, simply because I did not build it this time around. Street and Strip had sent the crank off to be balanced, and ordered the main bearings for it. When it was sent off it looked like it needed turning, and when it came back it looked great, so I assume it was turned, just dont know how far. The factory cranks we have turned well over .040 and I am sure it is not THAT much or even close. its the aftermarket cranks like eagle and scat that you need to watch out, the core gets softer as you go down, which is why we stick to GM forgings in most cases, except stroker applications. those we automatically turn .010/.010 because often eagle and scat do not check the roundness properly and we have had motors torn up because of egg-shaped journals out of the box. Hope this helps! and I hope you get a new machinest too. No offense but there is no such thing as a 1187 casting number
FYI
John BB

#4 Hammer

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 06:48 PM

I'm not sure if your post was in reply to the topic.I think you may have me confused with someone else.Maybe?
My engine builder is Ted Opel(Opel Engineering)of Streamwood Il and is one of the best and most experienced race engine buiders in the country.Surely he has checked out clearances and tolerances on my rotating assembly before he put it together.I will not get a new machinist.
I would have preferred a quality US made crank but could not justify paying $2000 for a Callies crank for a street car that I may run down the strip a few times a year.If and or when I do hurt this crank I will throw it out and probably buy another Eagle for $599.
The crank I am using is a 4.25" stroke,GM does not make a 4.25" stroke if they did I would most likely have one if the price was comparible.I dont remember giving a casting # in my previous post.??(1187)??
Anyway what do you think about my combo other than the crank?I figure it should make about 600-625 HP and 600+ lbs of torque.

#5 JOHNR

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 08:09 PM

Hi nope I dont have you confused with someone else. I just cut and pasted what he told me about a crank I bought from him to put in my car. And an 1187 was an aftermarket crank someone tried to sell me that was modified poorly and would have puked when I installed it. But I thought you might be interested to read it. Your car Im sure will do well.
John

#6 72 LS5

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 02:22 PM

Hammer: After reading your post I think you will have no problems with 11s. I had that as a goal but it may be a little unrealistic with the parts I'm choosing - less cam, less convertor, less gear.

I have a couple of questions: Have you put your info in a computer to see what times you should be running? What is the HP required to run 11s in a 4000lb car?
I had picked a 542 hp recipe for a 454, and now I'm not sure that's gonna cut it....unless I put ol Blue on a diet!

Heart Transplant 07/2011-> Tired 454 yanked and ZZ502 installed

#7 Hammer

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:26 PM

HEY 72,I've run it through a few different kinds a software.I have an old version of Performance Trends' Drag Analyzer circa 1993.It has been fairly accurate over the years as long as the imput is realistic.My first idea was to buy a zz454 crate engine for $5800 and build it around what they did to it in Hot Rod mag. last year.After totaling up the cost to do it I realized I could make more power with better parts for less money on my own(hence the 496).
I was thinking that the zz454 might get me real close to an 11.99 et.So I gave myself a little extra breathing room to hit that goal with the 496.Any way in bad air in the middle of a hot summer afternoon on paper(drag analyzer)it should run high 11's.In perfect conditions it should 11.40s-50s.But the proof will be at the track.I am hoping to get her running no later than mid July.
I have had good luck with Performance Trends' engine analyzer also.In my last race engine it was about 3% higher than the actual dyno sheets.(990 versus 962HP) but torque #s were not that close (850 versus 778)

#8 monte0

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 12:04 AM

Hi, new to board. My 70 monte runs 12.5@ 109 mph with the following setup with my street tires (275/50/15 on stock vette rallys).

ZZ454
502 aluminum heads(stock)
Stock cam with motor
speed pro file lit rings
Balanced and blueprinted
Mildon oil pan
msd 6al, msd wires, msd distributer
750 double pumper street demon carb.
ford 9" rear w/350 gears
be cool aluminum ratiator, etc.
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

57ff296a-28e6-4b1e-ba72-117c2bd891df_zps

#9 Guest__*

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 06:31 PM

I have a question...why are these big block cars so slow? When i clicked on this thread, i expected to see 11's and 10's, and all i see are 12's. What gives? I thought that a 450-500hp motor could easily push a 3500 lb car into the 11's? especially when combined with a good stall and rear.

#10 502ci

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 08:35 PM

So now that this post was revived, Hammer did you ever get into the 11`s? cool

Bill
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#11 jrb70454

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 08:41 PM

Hello mrWilson! (couldn't resist). I think the times here seem in line with the combinations. I think Hammer could go deep in the 11's. I'm curious- what is your combo and how fast are you going?
Life just keeps getting better and better.
Did you ever notice that when you buy aftermarket stuff, you have to buy more aftermarket stuff to make it all work?
70 Monte in the 11s
68 Camaro in the 10s
Fast and quiet is more fun!

#12 dbreese

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 06:51 AM

To me if you can you can get a 3900 + pound car in the 12's or high 11's with a with a b/b s/b combo I don't see that as slow. This would cover pretty much any production car with ease. Just my opinion.

BTW Welcome to the boards MrWilson.

David

1972 Monte Carlo
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Family owned since new.
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4.30 gear
th350

11.28 @ 119.86 02/01/2015
ad390391-5036-4b2c-81a7-e0ed49d7c959_zps[/URL]




Hot Rod Drag Week finisher 07',08',09' and 13'


#13 Guest__*

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 06:35 PM

thank you.

IMO 12's isnt all that spectacular, but as long as there are 11's ill shut my mouth smile

#14 72 LS5

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 07:44 AM

I think weight is a major factor here. My car weighs 4000 on the button without me. And its a lightly optioned cars. I'm sure there are some loaded big blocks up close to 4200lbs.

If you figure roughly 100 lbs = .1 second, getting the car down to 3500 would be worth a half a second.
I often wonder how my mild 454 would run in a Camaro....

Heart Transplant 07/2011-> Tired 454 yanked and ZZ502 installed

#15 jrb70454

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 07:18 PM

I often wonder how my mild 454 would run in a Camaro....

Contrary to popular belief, 1st and 2nd gen Camaros aren't exactly light-weights- maybe a two or three hundred pounds less than the Monte. I'll make this comparison (if you squint, it's apples-to-apples)... the combo in my Monte recently went 12.41@110. It is a relatively mild 454, with exhaust manifolds, a th350/2400 converter and a 3:31 gear. This same motor with headers, a th400/3000 converter and a 3:73 gears went 12.3@108 in my 70 Camaro. (The motor was decked, about .5 more compression, before it went in the Monte.)

I never thought the Monte would get close to the Camaro's et- I think the mild "non-race" gears and converter actually work the motor better... and are headers really worth the hassle?
Life just keeps getting better and better.
Did you ever notice that when you buy aftermarket stuff, you have to buy more aftermarket stuff to make it all work?
70 Monte in the 11s
68 Camaro in the 10s
Fast and quiet is more fun!

#16 Heckeng

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 07:19 PM

I agree Mr. Wilson! 12's aren't spectacular at all!!! That is, until you look at the weight of the cars and that most of the cars you see here are able to be daily drivers. 10's and 11's would be alot easier with a 4000 stall and 4.11 gears instead of the a 2000 or 2500 stall and the common 3.31 or 3.55 gears. Also, not trying to dig into ya too much, but it's alot easier to make light of someone ONLY pulling a 12 (or 13, 14, or 15 for that matter) second quarter mile than it is to get your 4000 lb car to beat theirs! That is unless you have tons of $$$ and friends who are mechanically inclined! I think that once you start digging into yours you might chuckle at your post. wink Just one guys opinion! Welcome to the forum, lots of good guys and information here!

502ci, AFR 265's, Demon 750, Air gap intake, Straub custom cam, TH350, 3800 Edge converter, 3.55 12 bolt.

#17 monte0

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:45 PM

when I ran my 12.5, I ran with street tires and full trim including steel rallys.
70 Monte Carlo 12.5@109 waiting on new setup

57ff296a-28e6-4b1e-ba72-117c2bd891df_zps

#18 mc71454

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 09:17 PM

You will have no problem getting an 11.99.

In reading through your combination, the only setback you may have is the converter. A converter that will flash at 4000+ will net you another 1/2 second in ET assuming you are getting the drag radials to hook.

The lowered fron suspension isn't the hot ticket for weight transfer, but your goal is 11.99, not 10.99.

Go ahead with the 3.55's, I used those exact gears in my '71 a number of years ago with less cylinder head in a 468, performer RPM, pump gas 10" converter, holley 750 and was running 11.40's.

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods

#19 mc71454

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 09:20 PM

Wow, I just looked at how old this post was...

What were the results ????

Tom Baird - '71 Monte - NA, 10.310 @ 129.86 mph, 3950 pounds, 3.73 gears, pump gas driver
'70 Chevelle SS 454, 12.30's
'87 Buick Turbo T Limited, Stock
'87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, Stock
'07 Toyota Tundra 4WD, mods




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