bigscaht Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So im goin to order my sway bars today and I was wondering should I go with this kit LINK or replace the rear one with this one LINK2 what are your thoughts as this will be mainly a street car but i do plan on goin to the track to see the numbers it makes and in the future i am planning on switching to a big block for some real fun!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400hpmonte Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think the first kit with both bars will need the rear lower control arms to be boxed in. The second one with the rear bar only does not. Not completely sure but check that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wv Wild 72 Monte Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I purchased the UMI Peformance sway bars for my 72. They are larger, and solid. You will have to have rear boxed control arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wv Wild 72 Monte Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I did alot of searching before I purchased mine. I looked at the links you posted and found the same on ebay ALOT cheaper. Mine was a front and rear set with the polyurethane bushings, and all hardware. I paid 240.00 + free shipping. The price may have went up a bit. I got mine last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I recommend the Hellwig Sway Bars. Mark from Sevitskes Classics and Customs worked with Spohn to develop that rear bar (second link) he was not happy with their final result so he calls it a squirrel catcher (center section hangs too low) and it is not a true bolt on due to position of links to frame... He then worked with Hellwig (sells millions of sway bars to military and off road) to develop a better version of the same. Truly bolt on, fits high and tight. Have front & rear on my car. Because of the way the rear bar mounts it gives more torsional rigidity thus less sway. Call Mark at Sevitskes Classics and Customs. He can sell you either but will walk you through the differences of each. He will give you an education on everything regarding handling. In fact he wrote the book on "How to Make Your Muscle Car Handle" ……. nice guy, Sevitskes Classic & Customs ……. Closd Mondays I believe and in 10 - 7pm Eastern time FYI: The Hellwig Bars cam in a grey hammer tone which I did not car for for a show car. Asked him to powder coat mine in black. The hammer tone holds the grease in crevices and keeps bushings well greased though which is reason for look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I got both front and rear from Hothckis the front is a 1 3/8 bar and the rear is like a 1 1/4 Im using tubular lower control arms on the bottom and adjustable tubular on top so I could adjust pinion angle. It will defiantly make a big difference adding one to the rear cant wait to finally drive it with new suspension under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 i have umi rear uppers and lowers so the first kit will bolt right up to those.. im jus wondering if its worth it to spend the extra money for the more expensive rear sway bar versus the kit with front & rear. i have all umi parts out back so thats why im goin with their sway bars and was jus curious!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The short answer is "YES" big.. big.. big difference. Here is the explanation regarding the Spohn Pro-touring rear bar (not my first choice) which highlights the benefits of attaching bar end with links to the chassis rather than lower control arm. This holds true for all of these style rear sway bars. "The 3 way adjustable rear swaybar is a quantum leap forward for A and G body GM cars! The factory method of attaching the swaybar to the lower suspension arms is inexpensive to manufacture but leaves a LOT to be desired on a performance car. The long suspension arms have a tremendous amount of leverage which drastically limits the effectiveness of the bar. This is why you sometimes see HUGE rear bars for these cars. The other problem is that when the suspension articulates the bar causes it to bind up. The bigger the bar the more it binds. The ProTouring bar uses links mounted to the crossmember of frame with teflon lines and spherical bearings for bind free articulation. This method also allow much higher rates with a much smaller and lighter swaybar. Adjust the bar to Soft, Med or Firm settings in minutes to tune oversteer/understeer. Use the firmest setting at the drags for flatter launches! " Original mounted sway bars work to reduce sway by preventing the twisting of the rear sway bar. Stiffer the bar, less twist ..better handling. But as mentioned above there is a lot of binding that is involved and also becaus the end links are not fixed but twist up and down guess what happens. Take a hard left turn, suspension compresses on right side of car causing sway bay end to rotate up on that side……….guess what the other side is doing …… sway bar is rotating down (limited by stiffness/torsional ridgity of fat sway bar) actually having a lifting effect to car on opposite side. By mounting the rear sway bar to a stationary mount you are able to get much more sway control simply by better leverage (rather than relying stiffening the torsion ridgidity(twist) of bar). The differences between Spohn, Umi, Detroit Speed and the Hellwig bars are the quality of tubing/manufacture, how low the center section of sway bars hangs down at carrier of rearend and the "big difference" is how they mount to chassis. They all mount with links but it is where they mount where the difference lies. Spohn: Spohn - Pro Touring Bar Spohn Drag Bar Not a simple bolt in. Needs holes to be drilled in rolled edge of chassis crossmember for links which when tested will "FLEX" and center section hangs very low at carrier. I know their drag bar hangs very low at carrier not sure of the pro-touring bar. UMI: Umi Sway Bars Not a simple bolt in. Needs holes to be drilled in rolled edge of chassis crossmember for links which when tested will "FLEX". Not trying to steer you away from these but trying to explain the differences you may not have noticed. Detroit Speeds: Detroit Speeds rear bar Not a simple bolt in. Needs holes to be drilled in rolled edge of chassis crossmember for links which when tested will "FLEX". ** The strongest and most ridgid portion of the chassis crossmember ( "C" channel) is the vertical portion or "web". Hellwig mounts to the vertical web in existing holes. All of the other pro-touring bars (Spohn, Detroit,UMI) sway bars simply attach to the lower rolled edge of crossmember of the frame which when tested will "FLEX". It is simply a 3" 90 degree rolled edge with no support on one side. You are buying these with the intention of cornering hard right. Hellwigs: Hellwig bars Mount to existing holes in "web" (much more ridgid .. no flex) of the chassis with their patented bracket (I can send pics of my install) and from memory are a better quality manufactured bar than the others in design and build. They are the largest manufacturer of this kind of stuff in the country (do all the military vehicles) and have only recently got into the aftermarket business. They are kind of like the Currie of suspensions. Currie does the majority of their work for the military. LINK: Mark Sevitskes dirt simple basics to Musclecar suspension technology Dirt Simple basics to Muscle Car suspensions Do yourself a favor …… even for just the education call Mark. He is not a friend, business partner or someone I am looking to help out. He doesn't need it. We all belong to clubs for the technical benefits, knowledge and to be steered in the right direction. All this to avoid making the same mistakes as others. He is a gem in regards to his working knowledge of suspension design & geometry and has helped may guys with minimal budgets compete with the big dogs. Go onto youtube and google "NotoriouSS TAD" with a heavy 4500lb 96 Impala SS this guy is blowing everyone away. Link1 Link2 NotoriouSS TAD 2 (from cockpit ..NICE) He also set up the guy with the primered 70 Chevelle with 15" steelies that beat many 6-figure cars with mega$$$$$ suspensions Link: ( I will try to locate video ) I am an engineer by schooling and Mark educated me a lot. Just want others to benefit before they make a hasty decision. They all look similar on paper and in the pictures and unless you speak to someone in the know …… you yourself would never know. Mark can review some of the differences (as mentioned above plus get into of qualty of actual bar) and then you decide which works best for you regarding performance, price, fit, install and your ultimate goal with the car. All I am saying is if your spending money for the reward of performance you should educate yourself as to whats out there rather than simply choosing by price. That goes for anything. Often there are difference the avergae person would never pick up on. Realistically speaking they are all rather close in price in the big scheme of things. The Hellwigs are actually cheaper than most with all the design benefits. Why not get the best reward from your investment. Hope this helps. I tried to email you pics of my front & rear suspension for your reference on how they mount but the email address in your profile was kicked back. You must have changed your email. Update your profile with correct email. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waupachino Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 For the front Bar I'm running one off a WS6 Trans Am. It fits perfect and are an 1 1/4 inch bar, not to mention can be found used fairly cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 thanks for that write up DAn and I did change my email address but forgot to update my profile here..feel free to send thos epics again if you have the time...djsone2008@gmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 dam and the hellwig rear bar is cheaper than the umi one...hummmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hence the benefits of belonging to a club like this! Glad to help. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 thanks for that write up DAn and I did change my email address but forgot to update my profile here..feel free to send thos epics again if you have the time...djsone2008@gmail.com Email sent. Any questions just let me know. You can see where the Hellwigs mount (come with the brackets) and mount through existing holes in chassis. You can see the rolled edge of "C" channel clearly just under upper control arm mounting location on chassis where the other three mount. Does it look ridged? Not for the kind of cornering I intend on putting my car through. I hoping to hit Watkins Glen one day !! The Bilsteins won't cut it for that though. There a good heavy duty shock but you need a tuneable shock for that kind of stuff that is dbl adjustable. Another thing I learned from Mark was that QA1's used to be the way to go. But as of recent many shocks are being cheaply manufactured in China now to lesser quality standards. I can't remember the brand but there is a high end shock now being manufactured in the US that is now leading the pack. That is what he recommended I get when I am ready the last time we spoke. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hey thanks again Dan for all the info and help on making my decision..look what showed up at my job today... Looks like ill be in the garage after work today..... Hey Dan you wanna come help me drill that 2nd hole for the mount...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 got the front and rear sway bars in yesterday...cant wait to see how this thing drives now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wow. That was quick! You got them installed before I got my commission check from Hellwig. LOL Guess they went in without issue. Thats great. You will notice the difference and also appreciate the solid mounting of the Hellwigs. Now that you were under there you can see clearly where the others mount and why Hellwigs were the way to go. Glad to help someone make the right decision the first time. Please let me know what your impression is on your first ride. I am sure you will be surprised. Which setting are you starting with with rear bar? Glad install was painless. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 yeah the install wasnt as hard as I first thought..took the shock..springs and wheels..and didnt even have to get under the car to drill the other hole needed. and on the bracket theres a 3rd hole for the exaust to hang and they provide screws for it too..super cool..yeah gotta love summit for quick shipping!!! while I was under there i was lookin at where the other bars mounted and i can se how that location would flex under hard cornering. cant wait to get the car totally back together so I can drive it. The instructions said to use the outter most hole till I get used to how it drives..I guess thats the least firm setting..... which hole do you run?? and how far or high up did you do you have the end links set..there was no reccomendation for that so I set them at 2 inches..they clear everything there but i wasnt sure?!?!?!? Ill call em to see when your commission check is comming... heres how she sits now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Glad your happy with them and see benefit. My car is not street-able yet either but should be soon. I followed directions and set mine at first hole too. I believe you are supposed to adjust length of end links to a point that makes the last 8-10" of swaybay in before bend even with the ground. Just make sure rear sway bar is right side up. I first put mine on upside down. Bar should set even or just below center diff. Yours looks high like mine did first tome. Check it against pics in directions and on website. If I get mine out first I will let you know how it goes. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 up side down? how can you tell if its up side down or not??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Here is a link. Click on pic to make larger. I guess the easiest way to insure you have it on correctly is to check the bend in the arms on each side and make sure the look like this pic. There is a noticeable bend in them. I believe the bar should bend slightly down at center where differential is. Yous looks like it bends slightly up. May be an optical illusion. http://scandc.com/new/node/266 Another article with install on chevelle Hellwig rear bar install-chevelle Good explanation of benefits of this bar Good pic of proper install Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 thanks for that link..i actually called the hellwig people and talked to them and yes i do have it on up side down..gotta get back under there and flip it over.....thanks again. I jus sold another hellwig bar to a friend for his Monte yesterday....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Glad I wasn't the only one. LOL. My job is done here! Glad you are using your new found education to help others too. Pay it forward. They mention nothing in directions and bend is so slight I missed it too. Maybe they should come with a sticker that says "TOP" Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigscaht Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 hell yeah that would be very helpful..but it wasnt that hard to flip it over....cant wait to drive her..man im getting anxious!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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