70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Most of you know about 427 crate engine I put in the 70 and heard the sound clips from the chambered exhaust,I dare to say that I had to silence that loud exhaust and replaced it with a much quieter system. But my concern!, This engine has the Hyd roller cam and it also has Aluminum roller rocker arms 1.7:1. It sounds like they need to be adj down a bit because I'm hearing some light clicking at idle and also some valve train noise at around 4-5000 RPM. I'm not considering any change/adj until i get some miles on it and get the 5W30 break in oil out and the VR1 Racing oil in. Should I pull the VC's and check/ adj if needed or would this be normal with the type of rockers ect ? You would think that they would have proper clearence being all new but they could of missed 1. What would you engine guys do, A. Pull the covers and check clearences, B. Put the LOUD exhaust back on so I can't hear them Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I have found that roller rockers have some noise. How long have you had your "break In" oil in it? If it sounded like just one rocker I might pull the covers and check. If the sound is light and scattered I think it would be the nature of the rocker. An exhaust leak will sound like a lifter ticking, it will usually go away under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks Mike,I'd say light and scattered not to noticable if not listening for it.Gm says to run 5w30 for 500 mi change and run another 500 then go to your prefered oil.I'm on the 2nd change and should be ready by later wk end to change to the oil I'm using .VR1. Its more of a clicking hollow sound then exhaust,I can hear some sounds like valve train while under load at 4-5000. ,I had my Mechanic take it for a drive and he seems to think its valve train.You really can't hear it at 2-3000 rpm.just a med/heavy load. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I agree with Mike 100% my 454 with moral hydraulic rollers and comp hi-tech rockers make noise too, I have about 8000 miles on this mill, it drives me crazy too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Sam,does your valve train make a light noise at mid /high rpms? I guess I'm being too cautious with the new engine.I only have about 7-800 miles on it I've been listening to see if its getting any worse but its been the same so far. I can live with it if thats the nature of the beast These 427 's are to be a copy of the 67 L88's but they were soild lifter engines and 11:1 CR, GM could be making these sound like those Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 makes noise though-out the rpm range, I've adjusted my valves a few dozen times and even contacted Chris Straub who sold me the lifters, I've done 1/4 turn, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 full turn, Chris said these can take 1 1/4 turn of preload, noise stays the same, tried, 10W40, 10W30, no difference, it's quiet at first until the oil warms up some, I have given up and am just running the snot out of it, it hasn't broke yet and it sees 6000 rpm often and the cam should lay down around 5500 rpm, I've even ran it a the freeway at 3500 rpm for quite a while, so I'm going to just keep grinding on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKZ03 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 As a NON expert in this area I would say you better go with option B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Sam,sounds like you made an honest effort to slience them,I'll do like you and just "Run the Snot" out of it and forget it OR I'll take Cory's advice and go to plan B . Thanks to all . Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Mine has the Morel lifters also, and it makes a racket until it's fully warmed up. I don't notice any noise once that happens. On a warm day even, it takes 15-20 minutes. If I remember right, you are running cast iron exhaust manifolds? Most of us use exhaust gaskets now, but a lot of the big blocks back in the day just didn't have them. For some reason I want to think that your noise is exhaust related because it changes with load and valvetrain really doesn't see anything but speed changes. Tiny exhaust leaks make a sound very similar to lifter noise, but usually only when the engine is under a load. Headers are famous for this, and their thin tubes can resonate noise even when there aren't any leaks. You can try listening to your running engine with a long screwdriver or metal rod: put one end against the engine and the other against your ear...you can find bad or noisy alternator bearings and water pump noises this way.(you hear all kinds of machinery in motion this way; it's a new perspective). For exhaust leaks, a piece of heater hose used in a similar way may work better to isolate external noises. I wouldn't recommend revving the engine up to 5000 rpm for any of this listening, but it may help narrow down where the noise ISN'T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 You're right Mark about the cast iron manifolds,I used the GM stainless steel type gaskets also for a good seal. It really isn't that bad ,you have to be listening close ,I just have been listening for every possible sounds while breaking it in.anything is possible but it really has the sound of lifters to me . Like Mike and Sam says,its the nature of these aluminum roller rockers ect ,If it doesn't get any worse I'll be happy with it. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think most of it is the aluminum rockers Terry, I used steel ones in the Monte with the Morels and they were dead silent. On the Chevelle I only turn them down about an 1/8 turn so they make a lot of racket...but with open headers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks Davey, I have steel ones on the ZZ454 and are silent,never had to turn any of them. This is the 1st set of aluminum rockers for me . The headers will drown them out thats for sure Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VETTEWITHLEGS Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I remember my uncle using the screwdriver method in the late '60's - early ''70's......very "new perspective"! lol! but, it worked then ...it'll work now. good advice IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Just a follow up on this pecking noise from back on first startup,I have been montering this light noise for awhile and it hasn't seemed to get any worse,the noise was coming from the right bank and it has been some smoke coming from the same tailpipe also it has been using a lot of oil ,this is running easy and not punching on it much. Well last wk when I started it up in the morning it started hammering, banging and missing badly.I didn't rev it when it was cold just on fast idle only when it started.We pulled a cover hoping a rocker broke or maybe see one that wasn't moving but all looked fine so we pulled the plugs and # 2 and #6 was wet. We used the camera down in the cylinders and down thru a hole in the heads looking for a lifter that broke ect but seen nothing. We saw a lot of garbage on the valves in the 2 cylinders but still don't know what broke. At this time Im waiting on my guy that installed the engine also ordered it from GM to call about the warranty ect. We are wanting a new replacement and not to repair this one,tiny pcs of metal is evedent in the oil laying in the head and its likely thru out the engine.I hoping for them to send another 427 out so I'm holding my breathe This engine only has 2,300 easy miles . This all happen after Tony drove it "J K " Tony Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I knew I was gonna get blamed at least I got a good breakfast! Sorry to hear all if this Terry, the metal lying around in there, doesn't sound good for sure. How is GM warranty dept to deal with so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 That will be the last breakfast Terry pays for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 my guess is a lifter collapesed are you using roller rockers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 I just got off the ph with my guy at the garage,GM wants all the paper work ,invoice,installation bill records of oil change ect,he wants to do a leak down test too.Just have to go through their BS and wait. I hope to hear this wk what they are going to do. Sam, Yes they are aluminum roller style. This hammering, banging ,missing and popping through the tail pipe happen a couple of wks ago , I reved it to 3000 and it straighten out until last wk when it happen again but didn't straighten out this time,I guess thats when it broke. Both times was on starting it up,and I didn't over rev it either times just fast idle. The tech said they like to have 2000 miles on it before they do anything about the oil consumption, I have 2,300 on it Stay tuned ! BTW Tony, The GM tech also wants a copy of that breakfast bill Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 your killing me Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Terry this is where you have to take off the nice guy hat and switch to one like McEnroe would wear...having worked for a manufacturer my whole career it is the squeaky wheel that get's greased. Don't mean you have to get nasty (that doesn't work btw...threats don't either) but you need to let them know you are not uneducated in the ways of motors. The 2000 mi thing is complete BS...the rings seat in the first 15 minutes after start up....they are not going to cure themselves with additional miles. Just stay persistent, contact them often and let them know that paperwork stalls will not fix the problem....you are a dedicated GM devotee who just wants the right thing done..that kind of approach...also you are a person with 40+ years of restoring and preserving GM cars not a kid hot rodder... if you can find out who the local GM Zone rep it for parts and service getting someting started with him would help a bunch...just my experience..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks Davey,point well taken. My friend at the garage where I bought it through and also installed the engine is talking to the rep that you're referring to,They wanted him to pull the head and he refused explaining to him that its a new engine and in a show car and repair isn't an option .I have to wait until he tries everything then if I'm not satisfied then I'll get involved and follow your advice.He's asking for a new engine and explained about my situation.I don't beat on it,also bought it for my 70th bday, have bought 4 crate engines from them ,only used for pleasure driving ect. Its hard not to be able to talk with this rep one on one but I'll wait for my guy to do all he can,they want to deal with the garage .I went through this with another engine that I bought instead of going through a garage and they danced me around for 3-4 months so I'm hoping with my guys approach will get me a replacement.I agree its a lot of BS on the rings Thanks. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 sounds good Terry....if you can get the contact info for that rep I would contact him....sometimes dealing with a polite and meaningful end customer works better than through a intermediary...I do know they like to try and repair them which is stupid because in the long run it would have been cheaper to just send a motor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Great news Gm decided that its best to replace the 427 engine along with all the labor cost of remove/replace,plus all fluids ,everything thats needed to change them out even the R12 if the compressor has to be pulled again.They will pay for it all,even the time he had on checking it out last wk. Just some more paper work with a charge # for the GM dealer so they can send another engine.My guy Lou at the garage did well dealing with them.I'm greatfull that they did the right thing,even though I had high hopes but also low expectations. Looks like I'll have a Happy Fathers Day after all It won't be ready next wk for GM Carlisle but I have the other Monte,I had them both reg. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Good news on the motor Terry! I guess that makes the decision on what car to take easier, even though I know you wanted to show it off! Is the 454 under warranty still? If so maybe I can take that for a ride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Thanks Tony, I had them both reg,was going to drive 1 on Fri and the other on Sat.I'll still use the Gate and go pass on Fri with the truck or the 85 SS. No the 454 is out of warranty time wise,I think it was for 2 yrs but you can still drive it but with less caffeine this time Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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