Xxyyzz Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Is the mallory an electronic Unit (no points): I don't know. (I'm learning on this car lol) but i do know both my spark plug wire ends are female which I think means I have the new kind, right? Does it use the original feed from the firewall? The purple wire goes into the firewall at about 4 o'clock on the master cylinder, Does the 'R' wire at the starter still go to the coil?There is a black wire that goes to a clip on the mallory ignition unit. There were actually 4 wires going to 3-points. 1. Large battery wire to large bolt. 2. Smaller black wire: to 1 of the 2 smaller bolt. 3. Purple wire: To 1 of the 2 smaller bolts 4. Alternator wiring that went from a bolt that I don't remember to trhe firewall at 12 o'clock on the master cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr70Monte Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Mallory Unilite requires a ballist resistor or wire, unless it is controlling a aftermarket ignition box like an MSD. if he would post a pic of his distributor, it would be easier to tell if he needs the resistor wire or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 i will post ASAP tonite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 no MSD box that I can find. Do these pics help? If the easiest thing is to get a new idstibutor I may do that depending on price. I'm looking to revamp the car anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr70Monte Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 looks to be a GM HEI with a Mallory coil on it, you don't need a ballast wire or resistor on it. does that distributor have a vacuum advance on it?, by the way it's installed, it would have the advance pointing towards (or hitting) the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 That looks like an HEI distributor with a Mallory coil. (the coil is in the center top of the cap...the red part). The entire distributor may be the Mallory brand but it is still considered an HEI (High Energy Ignition) like used in many GM cars. It is fully electronic (usually a magnetic pickup) and does not have points. This distributor needs a full 12 volt supply all the time. It should not be fed by the original resistance wire that was used to power the original distributor & coil. The original resistance wire has a different insulation covering it...it looks like braided or woven cloth. If your power wire has the typical smooth plastic insulation, then you should be ok as the previous owner has already replaced the resistance wire with standard wire. Your starter would be best if it had all 3 terminals, but the third terminal may not be required. As expained above, the 3rd terminal is something of a booster circuit to feed a full 12 volts to the ignition when the starter is engaged. Often times the starter takes so much current that there isn't enough power left over to feed other stuff like the ignition, so they hook a booster wire to the starter itself to make sure the ignition gets what it needs. Sometimes the ignition switch itself will cut out other circuits when it's turned to the start position...maybe you notice your radio blinks out when you crank the engine. The wiring is such that all priority goes to the starter motor when it's time to start the engine. You really need to hook a volt meter on your distributor power wire (pull the wire connector plug off the distributor and hook the meter to the terminal inside the plug) and make sure you have something close to 12 volts through it when the starter is cranking. Because the plug is not hooked to the distributor for this test, the engine will not start. If you have good voltage then the 3rd terminal on the starter isn't needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Sounds easy enough. So i will put the purple wire to the small one and the battery to the other. I wont connect the thick red one that goes to the firewall at 12 o'clock on the master cylinder. Nor will i connect the thin black one that goes to the distributor. Then i will pull distributor plug and test voltage while someone cranks the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I just ran into this yesterday while swapping my engine. I ended up putting the old starter back in place and hooked up all the wires. Sounds like I can go back and put the newer starter and disconnect some wires since I'm running HEI now with 12v from the fuse box ignition section. Maybe I missed it in a previous post, but what is the reason for leaving the bigger red wire unhooked? Does that red wire go to that junction box looking thing by the brake booster? I thought it was needed. I see why the extra smaller wire is not needed if you are not using points. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Do i have to do anything to align the gears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geartech Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I do believe you'll need that larger red wire on the battery post, that should be the power to inside the car, and the alternator, etc. You don't have to align anything when putting the starter on, but there are shims that can go in between the starter and the block. Only if you need them. You put them in if the starter 'sounds tight'...I dont really know how to explain that or how it sounds. It just sounds like the gear engagement is tight and not smooth, you can slide one or more shims in above the starter. You can just loosen the inside bolt and remove the outer bolt and you can slide the shim in, don't have to take the starter all the way off. They look like this: I suppose there is a technical procedure somewhere to measure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 my old starter had two shims so i put those in to be sure. I will connect the thick red wire (that goes above 12 oclock above the master cylinder) to the battery post. Quote: I do believe you'll need that larger red wire on the battery post does that mean the two battery wires will be going to the same post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have both a thick red wire and the + battery cable hooked to the single fat post on the starter. I also did the mod I found, same as you posted, to the alternator with some wire and connectors I had laying around. The Gen light is now off and I believe the electrical system is working proper. I drove 15 minutes away with only exhaust manifolds to the exhaust shop and had no issues, so I guess I got everything hooked back up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 There were shims on my old starter but on my replacement I did not use any and I have had no problems. I think the aftermarket folks take a little more care than OEM did. One they are not making nearly as many and the techniques have improved tremendously for bygone eras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 what should i do with the thin black one coming from the distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I learned a pretty good lesson today and thankfully I caught it pretty quick. Make sure you tape up that wire or put it back on the starter. I left mine loose yesterday while working on the starter. Today I was messing around under the hood and saw smoke coming from some wires on the firware. I ran around and shut the car off and pulled the coil wire away from the others. It was super hot. After thinking about it for a second I realized that it had juice going to it and that the other wire that was attached to it going to the starer was left unhooked and touching metal on the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 OK, so I can't for the life of me get the starter to not make noise. It grinds when I start it (no noise while running. I have 5 spacers in it and it still grinds while starting (sounds like when you accidentally start a car when its already on). 5 shims can't be right. I thought if the bolts were staggered it could only be 168 tooth flywheel. Could it have staggered bolts and be 153? I'm at a dead end here, i have tried every shim configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I can't recall why you got the starter from Summit, but just a note on the $40 dollar OEM one I got from Autozone - I remember it saying use no more then two shims. In my case I used nothing, just pulled it out and installed with only a bit of a whine while starting. Did it come with directions to help with the spacers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 It came with 2 non-staggered spacers which didnt work. i bought a staggered set at autozone and reused old ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Starter noise during cranking and after the engine fires is often a result of too much or too little distance between the starter pinion gear and the flywheel. A high pitched whine during cranking (before the engine fires) can be caused by the pinion and flywheel being too far apart. Likewise, a whine after the engine starts (as the key is released) is often a result of the pinion-flywheel relationship being too close. In both cases flywheel damage can occur. Shims are available in 0.015 in. (0.4mm) sizes to properly adjust the starter on its mount. You will also need a flywheel turning tool, available at most auto parts stores or from any auto tool store or salesperson. If your vehicle's starter emits the above noises, follow the shimming procedure: 1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. 2. Remove the flywheel inspection cover on the bottom of the bellhousing. 3. Using the flywheel turning tool, turn the flywheel and examine the flywheel teeth. If damage is evident, the flywheel should be replaced. 4. Insert a suitable prybar into the small hole in the bottom of the starter and move the starter pinion and clutch assembly so the pinion and flywheel teeth mesh. If necessary, rotate the flywheel so that a pinion tooth is directly in the center of the two flywheel teeth and on the centerline of the two gears, as shown in the accompanying illustration. 5. Check the pinion-to-flywheel clearance by using a 0.020 in. (0.5mm) wire gauge (a spark plug wire gauge may work here, or a standard paperclip is about right). Make sure you center the pinion tooth between the flywheel teeth and the gauge, NOT in the corners, as you may get a false reading. If the clearance is under this minimum, shim the starter away from the flywheel by adding shim(s) one at a time to the starter mount. Check clearance after adding each shim. 6. If the clearance is a good deal over 0.020 in. (0.5mm), in the vicinity of 0.050 in. (1.27mm) plus, shim the starter toward the flywheel. Broken or severely mangled flywheel teeth are also a good indicator that the clearance here is too great. Shimming the starter toward the flywheel is done by adding shims to the outboard starter mounting pad only. Check the clearance after each shim is added. A shim of 0.015 in. (0.4mm) at this location will decrease the clearance about 0.010 in. (0.25mm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Mark (Wallaby), thanks for your incredibly clear and helpful post on starter alignment! I have already transferred it to a Word document, printed and filed it for future reference. It should be added to the tech archive here, also. Mark (cardude), in case you don't already have a flywheel turning tool, below is an example of what Mark mentioned. This one is a K-D No 2270 but there are probably many other brands available that will accomplish the same task. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Looks like im off to get a flywheel tool! Wallaby, how would i shim just one side? The shims have two holes in them... Also how many teeth should the startee have? My new one has 11to teeth but i cant count my old ine because of the shield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The starter itself is the same for both flywheel types; it's the mounting position that is different. Here is a picture of a starter that is drilled to fit both size flywheels... you can see the 4 holes along the top edge of the mounting plate. On the left side there are two holes, and on the right there are two holes. If you were to number the holes from left-to-right as viewed in the picture, the big flywheel mounting would have you put your bolts through holes 1 and 3. Small flywheel would use holes 2 and 4. It's a bit like the rear gears on a 10-speed bicycle: in the back there are several gears with different diameters and different tooth-counts, but the chain still fits them all. I don't know that I've ever seen a smll flywheel on a V-8. The small flywheel was used with the 4 & 6cyl engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 it must be correct, b/c my oldstarter was staggered. maybe when i installed it wrong i tore up my flywheel... argg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 how would i shim just one side? The shims have two holes in them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Cut the shim close to the hole you are going to use. If it is the inner hole/closest to the block double sided tape will hold it in place while you bolt it in. You just want a small piece so it rocks/angles the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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