Xxyyzz Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm looking for a new starter on summit and having some trouble. I want a mini-one. How many teeth do I need? Max compression? Gear Reduction ratio? staggered/inline? (im assuming bolt placement, if so mine is staggered i think) teeth? I see a lot of 153/168 so im guessing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I replaced my starter with a PowerMaster Performance 9100 series from Summit. Around $126 if my memory is working correctly. No shimming needed on my car just bolt on hook up wiring and turn key. Works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreese Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-829100/ I have this one. Been working flawlessly on my engine. Good header clearance and spins my 10.5:1 over like it was nothing. I'm thinking if you have a s/b you should have a straight bolt pattern. Flexplate is 168 tooth. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That is starter I have. Just my luck they drop the price after I buy one. Oh well I am used to that now it happens every time I have to buy something. LOL LOL LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi, Mark, I cannot answer all of your questions regarding number of teeth, staggered vs in line bolt pattern, etc. but I have learned that all of that is very important when selecting a mini-starter. Sounds like some other members can help you with that or you might call the Summit guys for their advice. I bought a new Powermaster 9502 XS Torque mini starter that Summit's application chart said should work on my '70 402 with manual transmission. I also bought the Powermaster 607 starter bolt and shim kit. But when I tried to replace my OEM starter, it wouldn't fit. Turns out the OEM starters for four-speed/flywheel cars all have a steel nose cone on them that makes them different from the automatic/flexplate starters. This is a very powerful mini-starter that will handle up to a 18:1 compression ratio. You can buy it from Summit today for $218.95 and the bolt/shim kit for $11.95 and get free shipping. Here's a LINK to the Summit on-line catalog where you can read all its performance specs and fit requirements. Anyway, I have this new high torque mini-starter and bolt kit I can't use on my 402. I kept them thinking I might use them somewhere else some day but I will let them both go for $130 including USPS flat rate shipping for anyone that can use them. Unfortunately, YOU will need to decide if its specs will match your application. In addition to the big block automatics, the Summit application chart says it will also fit a 1970-1977 Monte Carlo 350 Gen I with automatic transmission but it is specifically for a 153 tooth flexplate so you need to verify what you actually have. Let me know if you are interested but only if you are sure it will work on your Monte. I'd far rather keep it than have another member unhappy with me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 If u guys say my s/b is not staggered what does staggered mean? Can anyone verify if dennis' will fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you look at your stock starter if the bolts are in line it is a 153 tooth. If the bolts are off set it is 168. The aftermarket starter that Dennis has is for a 153 tooth according to summit website. all bets are off on bolt configuration with aftermarket stuff. some fit both wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Mark, Both the Summit website and the installation manual say this Powermaster 9502 is for Chevy 153 tooth, in line applications. I think counting the teeth on your flexplate might be extremely difficult if not impossible so best to check to see if the two mounting bolts are in line or staggered. Even if your starter is still mounted on your motor, you should be able to crawl under your Monte and determine which bolt alignment you have with a flashlight inspection. Be sure to put jack stands securely under the frame if you jack it up for this inspection - we need all of our members! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue502 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Good deal. Hi, Mark, I cannot answer all of your questions regarding number of teeth, staggered vs in line bolt pattern, etc. but I have learned that all of that is very important when selecting a mini-starter. Sounds like some other members can help you with that or you might call the Summit guys for their advice. I bought a new Powermaster 9502 XS Torque mini starter that Summit's application chart said should work on my '70 402 with manual transmission. I also bought the Powermaster 607 starter bolt and shim kit. But when I tried to replace my OEM starter, it wouldn't fit. Turns out the OEM starters for four-speed/flywheel cars all have a steel nose cone on them that makes them different from the automatic/flexplate starters. This is a very powerful mini-starter that will handle up to a 18:1 compression ratio. You can buy it from Summit today for $218.95 and the bolt/shim kit for $11.95 and get free shipping. Here's a LINK to the Summit on-line catalog where you can read all its performance specs and fit requirements. Anyway, I have this new high torque mini-starter and bolt kit I can't use on my 402. I kept them thinking I might use them somewhere else some day but I will let them both go for $130 including USPS flat rate shipping for anyone that can use them. Unfortunately, YOU will need to decide if its specs will match your application. In addition to the big block automatics, the Summit application chart says it will also fit a 1970-1977 Monte Carlo 350 Gen I with automatic transmission but it is specifically for a 153 tooth flexplate so you need to verify what you actually have. Let me know if you are interested but only if you are sure it will work on your Monte. I'd far rather keep it than have another member unhappy with me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 My starter is out. Ill snap a pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not sure if you can see it all that well, look at the nose peice that is what the offset bolts look like. Mine is a sb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Here it is: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's an offset. If it was an inline the bolt holes would be straight across form each other instead of staggered, I thought my starter would work on either one. The housing had 3 bolts holes and the bolt kit came with 2 long bolts and 1 short one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well, Mark, my Powermaster 9502 will obviously NOT work since you have the staggered bolt pattern. You need a starter that is specifically made for that pattern which some listings call "staggered" and some call "off-set". For example, the equivalent high torque mini for a staggered/168 tooth Chevy V8 is the Powermaster XS 9526. NOTE: there are some mini starters available (like the Powermaster 9426) that claim to handle EITHER inline/153 or staggered/168. They come with an assortment of bolts and shims and are more expensive. Also note that just because a mini starter comes with more than two bolts does not necessarily mean it will fit a either bolt pattern. I found several inline only mini starters with two long and one short bolts included. You need to avoid any starter that is listed for "inline" or "straight" bolt patterns ONLY (including the Powermaster 9100 which others have used successfully). As you know, there are several obvious application variables that MUST be considered and matched up for a replacement mini starter to work. Be sure to read the COMMENTS also because I found one that matched all the physical fit criteria BUT the comments section said it was for fuel injected motors ONLY - don't know why, but buyer beware! Probably best to talk to a supplier who has lots of application experience and knows their product line well enough to steer you to the right ones to choose from. Even then, there will probably be various brands, performace levels and prices to consider. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm looking for a new starter on summit and having some trouble. I want a mini-one. How many teeth do I need? Max compression? Gear Reduction ratio? staggered/inline? (im assuming bolt placement, if so mine is staggered i think) teeth? I see a lot of 153/168 so im guessing that Take your original to a rebuilder unless you have something significantly far from stock. The 1-MT motor used in our strters is one of the most common and utilized not only for automotive use but manufacturing. Parts are still available and plentiful. Many of the current upgrades are utilized on rebuilding your stock starter to bring it up to the level of todays. As long as you have a high torque starter (they can tell you) you'll be good to go for well under $100. The will replace gear, put a 5 roller gear and replace what diods etc may not be up to par. Best thing is you know it fits. Especially if the drive gear is not overly warn ....that means it fit well, why mess with it. BTW: from your picture I noticed your starter nose is original too. MAny have been replaced with aftermarket noses over the years if they warped or did not fit well. Obviosly, yours fit well if it lasted this long and everyone is looking for original noses. You got one! you can tell by the slightly carved out area by mounting holes. Aftermarket did not have that. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's an offset. If it was an inline the bolt holes would be straight across form each other instead of staggered, I thought my starter would work on either one. The housing had 3 bolts holes and the bolt kit came with 2 long bolts and 1 short one. I think im going to try this one http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67052/ because it is a meant to be a staggered fit. Dennis thank you so much for the offer, obviously it will not fit. Dan, I really like the idea of a "mini" starter. I'm trying to modernize everything on the car as much as i can. NOthing is wrong with the starter other then I had to drop it to pull off the power wire. PLus I can always just sell my stock starter here and it will still see a good life :-) -Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Looks like you have it pretty well sorted out now, Mark. Although that starter you identified seems to meet all of the phyiscal fit and application requirements, I would still suggest you call Summit and discuss it to be sure. But, maybe I'm just paranoid... Hope it all works out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Calling summit is good advice and its free. Now i just need to find an alternator.... if anyone hasnt been to that long thread and has some advice on what fits on my car check out my thread in the electrical subforum. -Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So what are your plans that you need that much starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 None. It was the cheapest mini that summit said fit. Is it bad to put a high-compression starter on a stock engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Old starter had 3a wores going to it. New one only has spots for 2. Advice? Old one: One at 3 o'clock one at 9a o'clock and big one up top. New one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geartech Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 On both starters, you have the main battery terminal obviously, and the "S" terminal(usually marked as such on GM starter) is the 'start' terminal that comes from the ignition switch, purple wire usually. Those are the ones that correspond to your new starter, the S terminal being the smaller one. The other terminal "R" on your original starter goes to the ignition coil+ (yellow) . The reason is...The wire going to the coil from the bulkhead connector is a 'resistance' wire. That is so it reduces the voltage to the coil to about 9V to lengthen the life of the points. The 14V from the alternator would shorten the life of the points quite a bit. But, the engine starts better without the resistance, because with the starter turning the engine, the voltage would drop too low to the coil. Therefore there is a terminal on the starter that supplies 12V to the coil while starting (the R terminal), bypassing the resistor/resistance wire. Other brands than GM usually use a 'ballast' resistor instead of the resistance wire to the coil, and its more obvious. For example, if you were to install an aftermarket electronic ignition (MSD or similar) they would instruct you to bypass the resistor or resistance wire. Basically then you would also not need the R terminal or yellow wire if you had electronic ignition. If you have stock (points) ignition, you'll need a starter with an R terminal for it to work properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxyyzz Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have a mallory distributor. Is that what you mean by electronic ignition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Is the mallory an electronic Unit (no points) and does it use the original feed from the firewall? Does the 'R' wire at the starter still go to the coil? There are ways around this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geartech Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yes... If I am not mistaken, if you have something like a Mallory Unilite (electronic) distributor, you don't need the R terminal wire - just 12V from the firewall (resistor/resistance wire bypassed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.