ignition lock cylinder

[vette396]

Can anyone help got a new set of locks,1 key fits all, no problem taking the old 1 out but the new 1 goes in and turns to start and run but will not go to [you said a naughty!] and key will not come out. ANY IDEAS???????????????? I did get the transfer from crank widows to power windows finished after a vacation from H--L went to key largo to visit a friend and got the flu and a virus then after 3 weeks in bed was feeling pretty good and started to get a sore throat went to the walk in clinic and sure enough sick again finally made it back home and got a severe sinus infection I think I will just stay home from now on

[Toppless72]

Make sure you have the shifter in the park position all the way. If the car is a floor shift grasp the lower collar of the column where it goes into the dash and try to rotate it counter clockwise while trying to turn the key to the lock position. If that doesn’t work, remove the lock cylinder and reinstall it. If that doesn't solve the problem, remove the 2 screws that hold the ignition switch to the column down by the brake peddle and try turning the key to the lock position. If it turns, inspect the switch for damage. You can operate the switch with a small screwdriver to see if it functions correctly.

If all that seems fine, but the key still does not turn, you may have to remove the upper bowl and inspect the sector gear that operates the switch rod rack on the left side of the steering column.

[vette396]

Thanks Topless72 have to drop the column out and take it apart. Thanks again. Bob

[KnightTime007]

Here goes more than one question!

Would the sector gear (not sure of the name of the part that connects the rod and the cylinder) cause the actuator rod to only move the cylinder from lock to accessory position? I thought my lock cylinder had failed, installed a new cylinder, and ignition will still only move from lock to accessory position. Then I removed the ignition switch where the bottom of the rod attaches and the rod will only still move from the lock to accessory, never to on or start. I can't see anything binding ( column is still in my 1972 Monte ). This is as deep as I have ever dug into a column. Also ... Is the next step removing the 3 Phillips head screws to remove the upper bowl? I have PB blasted the 3 Phillips screws but they won't budge. That's the only way to access the torx screws that attach the upper and lower column ? The column has developed some slop and play at that joint and I wanted to tighten that assemly. I appreciate anything that can be offered regarding assistance ! I have four different repair and service manuals.. Only two have steering column sections and neither venture past the ignition switch replacement.

Thanks

Charlie

[Toppless72]

Charlie,

 

Based on what you're describing, I'm assuming your car has a tilt column in it. Yes, taking out those 3 Philips screws is the only way to get below the upper bowl to assess what your issue may be. The sector gear is made from plastic and teeth break off of it causing movement of the rack to be difficult.

I've had success using a Philips impact driver to get them loose but be careful. You can damage the column if you get too carried away.

Once you get the upper bowl off the 4 reverse torks screws can be tightened with an E8 socket. If you don’t have one you can use a 6MM socket. Take them out one at a time and put a little thread locker on them before you reinstall them.

 

Let us know what you find out.

[KnightTime007]

I wish I could report some progress ... But those 3 Phillips screws are fighting me. I did manage to strip one and now I guess it's drill and EZ out time. Not sure if I will get any of the.3 bowl screws removed but she is going to be idle until I can figure out how to remove the bowl. I did buy a new sector gear ... Always successful at spending money!

[black07ss]

Did you try an impact screwdriver?

 

harbor freight

sears

[Sam (Bones)]

try tightening them just a smidge, then try to take them out, you'll be surprised how many times this has worked for me, esp on Honda cars

[footballubet]

Make sure to use a good screwdriver. The Phillips tip can get rounded and not fit the screw head tight. I've used vice grips on the screwdriver shaft to turn while pushing down on the handle with the other hand.

[KnightTime007]

I did use an impact driver with a new #3 Phillips bit. #2 bit felt a little sloppy. I did bolt the column back from dropped position to gain some lean into the screw. I will try the tightening a smidge first trick and the vice grips on a screwdriver shaft on the other two screws. Nothing to lose! The only fastener head worse than Phillips is slotted.

 

My hat is off to all the Americans that have given their life in service to our country ... Thanks just doesn't seem like enough ... But THANKS

[Toppless72]

First ignore the arrows in the picture. They were put there for another reason.

 

This is a shot looking into the upper bowl. You can see the 3 places where the screws go. There is a countersink on the screws which creates the holding pressure to secure the upper bowl to the lower part of the column.

 

Now… if you’re good… I mean really good, you can drill or grind away the head of the screws. This will leave only the threaded shaft of the screw. The upper bowl will slip off over the screws. Once it’s removed, you can remove the screws by using a vice-grip tool and turning them out.

 

This should be considered the last option.

 

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

JC

 

 

 

[KnightTime007]

Little victories keep me sane!

That and I became a first time Grandpa this week ... so cool.

 

I got all three of the phillips screws removed from the steering column bowl. One Drilled and EZ Out, the other two with PB soaked, impact driver AND tightening a bit them first. Thanks for the tip ... over 40 years of working on cars and never once have I thought to tighten something first to break it loose. Things like that keep me humble, there is always more I don't know than I do know.

 

OK, so I have the bowl loose and have spent a good 30 minutes trying to remove it from the column. The lock cylinder and indicator rod is removed, and it feels like the bowl is catching on the sector gear perhaps or the indicator switch? I'm not wretching hard on the bowl as I don't want to break anything, but I did apply a few significant tugs and small rotations and it moves off the column about 1/2", maybe 1/4" shy of removal. When I push or pull on the actuator rod the bowl moves with it. Any idea on what a steering column rookie is doing wrong? Never ventured past replacing a lock cylinder before now.

Thanks

Charlie

 

PS. Here is a good link to 1969-1976 GM Steering Column Assemblies

Jim Shea Corvette Papers - Steering Columns

[Toppless72]

Charlie,

 

Let's assume you've taken the tilt lever out. LOL I think your problem is the steering wheel locking pin is stuck in its bore. If you agree, try this:

 

If you look between the 10:00 and 11:00 position in the bowl you'll see the tip of the pin sticking out of the boss.

 

Unhook the battery if you haven't already.

Push the upper bowl back down to the rest position on top of the column.

Use needle nose pliers and rotate the lock rod clockwise to the run position. (This is inside the hole where the lock cylinder goes - flat tab)

Once you've done that, take a small punch the place it on top of the lock pin and give it a few gentle taps. You should see it working its way down into the bowl. Each time you do this it should allow the upper bowl to slide up a little further. If it is working, continue until you have it out.

 

Let us know how it’s going. BTW... Congratulations Grampa!!!!

 

JC

 

[KnightTime007]

Thanks ... having a grandson makes accept the fact that age is creeping up on me!

 

Sorry JC, I did forget to say the column is non tilt ... so yeah ... Tilt is removed! LOL. Battery is disconnected.

 

What led me down this rabbit hole is the ignition cylinder would only move from lock to Accessory, never to run or start. I figured the cylinder was worn and replaced it, but not the solution. No cylinder in the housing right now. Even with the rod disconnected at the switch, I can't turn the flat tab on the lock rod with needle nose pliers to any position but lock or accessory. As I slide the bowl up the flat tab rotates from lock to acc. and the locking pin moves down. There it seems to stick. Pushing the bowl back down rotates the flat tab back to lock position and locking pin moves back up. It's has to be a worn out sector gear right?

 

Can I drive the locking pin down with a punch even though I can't position the flat tab past lock position into run position? While I probably will never qualify as a NASCAR mechanic ... I can't believe this ignition column issue is kicking my butt for so long!

I really appreciate your help

Charlie

[Toppless72]

 

Charlie,

 

Yes, you can drive the pin down but it will most likely mangle the steering wheel locking pin spring and possibly what's left of the sector gear but not to worry. They're both in the repair kit you'll get at AutoZone or one of the other parts stores.

 

They're sold under a brand name "HELP!". They sell many small replacement type parts I'm sure you've seen them if you've spent 5 minutes in any of these places.

 

In a situation like this I operate under the theory of "If it don't fit force it. If it breaks it probably needed to be replaced anyway".

[KnightTime007]

You are right ... I try to not break things I don't have to, but they if they are already broken! I will apply force tomorrow. I take it you have been inside more than a couple of columns? HELP parts have received a decent amount of money from me too over the years. OPGI gets a fair share too.

 

Thanks

Charlie

[Toppless72]

Yes, I guess you could say I've been in a few columns in my day. Here's a peek at what's in there.

 

 

Believe it or not I can actully put this thing back together. LOL

[footballubet]

I've been into a lot of these also. I used to do theft recovery vehicles and column work was in every one!

[KnightTime007]

Wow Joe, you are a steering column expert! It would take a month of Sundays for me to try and piece that back together. I have rebuilt quite a few engines over the years, the first one was a 235 straight 6 in a '55 Belair when I was 15 years old. I had no help and it did run for a few 1000 miles after I got it running ... but boy did it smoke! I didn't know what seating rings even meant, but I learned by doing.

 

I see you are not far from my favorite Roller Coaster place in America ... Cedar Point (I am a Coaster Junkie). We have taken our family there several times during the past 20 years and they are itching to do it again soon. Many of our family vacations have been based around visiting Amusement Parks across the US, well over 200 different coasters total, and CP is king of thrill rides in one place. America's Rocking Roller Coast! Do you ever head north a bit and visit CP?

[Toppless72]

Well, I wouldn't say expert. You'll find you can always learn something new. I like the electrical systems the most when it comes to tinkering with these old cars. Even though it can make you pull your hair out.

 

Cedar Point? I've only been there once. I guess I'm not a big coaster fan.

 

They do have a bunch of coasters there.

[KnightTime007]

That's kind of like me in a way ... I live by a beautiful Florida white beach with Aqua Blue/Green waters but only go out there occasionally when family visits and becomes nearly a requirement. HOT Sun and Sand sticking to everything ... Pain in Paradise!

[KnightTime007]

So i drove the pin down with the ignition in the lock position and was able to remove the bowl without damage. I bought a new spring and pin ... But ... I am having second thoughts about the whole locking steering wheel feature. I do like the no locking steering wheels of the pre 70s cars I have owned and theft is a relatively minor concern. I lock a "club" on it if i am out and about in my Monte. If I reassemble the column without the locking spring and pin will if function normally and just not lock? I do see that it matters that the big tooth on the sector gear aligns with the big slot on the rack!

 

The sector gear looks fine now t hat I can see it. The spring not so much and it doesn't keep inward pressure on the gear, allowing the gear to slide out about a quarter inch. When the gear slides out that small amount it won't move the rod ... When I hold the gear tight to the column it rotates freely to all positions. I bet you are probably laughing ... Noobie column guy ... That's the way the parts work in there! But I didn't know ...

The spring is what was was catching the bowl from sliding off. From diagrams I found online I thought I would see the torx bolts at this point ... But I don't see them yet! What can I say ... Never been past the lock cylinder before. I'd make a poor car thief I guess.

[Toppless72]

Charlie,

 

Is there anyway you can post or send me pictures of you column. I believe your missing a snap ring that holds the sector gear but, I need to see where you're working.

[KnightTime007]

My phone was a little greasy! I can get a better one tomorrow if needed. I am thinking I might be digging a deeper hole than I can fill! Thanks

[Toppless72]

Charlie,

 

You are missing the snap ring that goes on the end of the ignition lock rod. It goes in the two grooves at the end of that flat tab. It’s what holds the sector gear in place. You can get them at a hardware store so not to worry. But before you do that....

 

You'll need to pull that housing off to get to the torks screws that need to be tightened. It’s really very easy.

 

1. Remove the steering wheel lock rod spring, sector gear, the lock rod, and the ignition rack.

2. Place a screwdriver in the spring cover just below the column shaft. Pushing in slightly, turn the cover a quarter turn allowing it to release the spring slowly. There will be pressure against the cover from the spring so be ready to hold in while you turn it. Once the cover is off remove the spring.

3. Next remove the pivot pins. They make a special tool for this but you don’t really need it. I use a 13mm socket, a screw with a washer, and nut. It works great. You’ll place the socket over the pin with the hex end toward the pin and thread the screw through the socket into the pin. Next, using a wrench, tighten the nut toward the pin. Continue until the pin comes out. Do this on both sides.

 

 

4. Install the tilt lever and pull it toward you tilting the column all the way up. The tilt housing will release from the lower column at the top so just slide it off.

5. Just below it you’ll see the 4 reverse torks bolts that need to be tightened. Remember to use thread locker on them or this job will need to be done again.

6. Reverse the procedure to reassemble everything.

 

Tips:

1. When reinstalling the pivot pins line them both up in the holes and use a large “C” clamp to slowly push them in from both sides. If you don’t have one you can tap them in one at a time with a plastic hammer.

2. When installing the tilt spring, do it with the column in the straight position. It’s just easier.

3. As you’re doing this watch to make sure you’re aligning the bearing rings etc.