monte70car Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 what is the best way to adjust the valves on a flat tapped hydro cam? I've seen do it when the motor is off spin the push rod between your fingers until you are unable to spin the rod then back off the nut. I've seen to adjust the valves while the motor is running either with a valve cover cut up or with oil deflectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I use to do them running, but not anymore. That mess just isn't necessary. Check with the manufacturer of the lifters to see how far past zero lash they recommend. If they're new, there should be instructions included. Many believe it's always 1/2 to 3/4 turn further, but that's not always the case. To find zero lash, don't tighten until the push rod gets too tight to turn. Sometimes the plunger in the lifter will already be compressed a little at that point. Zero lash is when the vertical play is zero. Lift and lower the pushrod as you slowly tighten the rocker arm nut to find zero lash. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGD72Monte Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Rob, for hydraulic lifters I've always used the engine off method, one valve at a time, rotating the engine as recommended in the installation instructions that came with the cam and never had an issue. Zero lash is no play, you'll feel the rotation friction in the pushrod. My view is that hydraulic lifters are fairly forgiving anyway and I think you meant to say tighten the nut, for my cam it was tighten 1/2 turn past zero lash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well now I'm lost altogether even following the paper work that came with the Voodoo cam and lifters. Adjust all the valves on the #1 cylinder power stroke, turned the motor to the #6 power stroke and adjusted those valves. Noticed the valves that were adjusted on the #1 power stroke had play and the rocker would come off the push rod. So me and my dad went back over it this evening and we both noticed after readjusting the valves the adjustments made on #1 power stroke are lost when adjusting #6. Reading on line they say you turn the motor over 360° to get to #6 power if it's on the #1 power stroke, Wouldn't I need to turn the motor over 180° for the power stroke of #6? I'm losing my mind going over the valve adjustment even though of thrown the 454 for the El Camino in the engine bay just to be at Carlisle. If I can't figure out the valve issue then it will be a true SS454 Monte at Carlisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 get it to #1 compression, adjust both valves on #1, turn engine 90 degrees, adjust #8, now another 90 degrees, do #4 and so on in firing order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Sam so im on the same page both intake and exhaust for #1 will be tight or in the open position along with #6, but #6 is on thte dead and should be lose correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I like to remove the plugs when I make adjustments, to let me turn the crank by hand easily. The reason it can be confusing is because there are different methods that all give the same results, if followed correctly. You should adjust only when the lifter is on the heel (lowest part) of the lobe. In trying to simplify this, turn the crank by hand and watch the #1 intake valve close and then stop at the TDC mark. This is the end of the #1 compression stroke and the beginning of the #1 power stroke. Both #1 valves can be adjusted now. Don't adjust any others yet. Now turn the crank clockwise (from the front) 90 degrees and adjust both for #8. Just keep repeating as you go through the firing order. To avoid confusion, don't try to include any steps of the other methods. Another method is to use the exhaust valve opening, intake valve closing method. This method simply has you adjust the intake when you see the exhaust pushrod on the same cylinder start to rise, and adjusting the exhaust when you see intake pushrod on the same cylinder start to fall. Another method that may not be a good choice for performance cams is to bring # 1 piston to TDC after the compression stroke. Both the intake and exhaust valves can be adjusted because both lifters are on the cam base circle. #4 and #8 are both at different points on the compression stroke, and #3 is on the intake stroke. At this point, their exhaust lifters are on the base circle and they can be adjusted. Also, #2 is on the power stroke, and #5 and #7 are both at different points of the exhaust stroke. This allows you to adjust their intake valves. Now, rotate #6 piston to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. You can now adjust the intake valve on #3, #4, #6, and #8, and the exhaust valve on #2, #5, #6, and #7. The first 2 methods are dependable for any cam. Quote: Reading on line they say you turn the motor over 360° to get to #6 power if it's on the #1 power stroke, Wouldn't I need to turn the motor over 180° for the power stroke of #6? No. 360 degrees (1 complete turn) is correct. Remember, the crank shaft has to turn 2 revolutions to see one revolution at the cam. Quote: I've seen do it when the motor is off spin the push rod between your fingers until you are unable to spin the rod then back off the nut. Do not back off the nut! You must tighten it, after finding zero lash, when using hydraulic lifters. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Sam and Dan I will give that a try maybe that will be better then adjust the following like the book has you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 The lifters bleed down as you rotate the engine. Adjust the lifters on each cylinder and move on to the next. You will see play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Another method that may not be a good choice for performance cams is to bring # 1 piston to TDC after the compression stroke. Both the intake and exhaust valves can be adjusted because both lifters are on the cam base circle. #4 and #8 are both at different points on the compression stroke, and #3 is on the intake stroke. At this point, their exhaust lifters are on the base circle and they can be adjusted. Also, #2 is on the power stroke, and #5 and #7 are both at different points of the exhaust stroke. This allows you to adjust their intake valves. Now, rotate #6 piston to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. You can now adjust the intake valve on #3, #4, #6, and #8, and the exhaust valve on #2, #5, #6, and #7. Quote: Reading on line they say you turn the motor over 360° to get to #6 power if it's on the #1 power stroke, Wouldn't I need to turn the motor over 180° for the power stroke of #6? No. 360 degrees (1 complete turn) is correct. Remember, the crank shaft has to turn 2 revolutions to see one revolution at the cam. Dan This is the method I use and never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Another method that may not be a good choice for performance cams is to bring # 1 piston to TDC after the compression stroke. Both the intake and exhaust valves can be adjusted because both lifters are on the cam base circle. #4 and #8 are both at different points on the compression stroke, and #3 is on the intake stroke. At this point, their exhaust lifters are on the base circle and they can be adjusted. Also, #2 is on the power stroke, and #5 and #7 are both at different points of the exhaust stroke. This allows you to adjust their intake valves. Now, rotate #6 piston to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. You can now adjust the intake valve on #3, #4, #6, and #8, and the exhaust valve on #2, #5, #6, and #7. Quote: Reading on line they say you turn the motor over 360° to get to #6 power if it's on the #1 power stroke, Wouldn't I need to turn the motor over 180° for the power stroke of #6? No. 360 degrees (1 complete turn) is correct. Remember, the crank shaft has to turn 2 revolutions to see one revolution at the cam. Dan This is the method I use and never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 "# 1 piston to TDC after the compression stroke. Both the intake and exhaust valves can be adjusted because both lifters are on the cam base circle. #4 and #8 are both at different points on the compression stroke, and #3 is on the intake stroke. At this point, their exhaust lifters are on the base circle and they can be adjusted. Also, #2 is on the power stroke, and #5 and #7 are both at different points of the exhaust stroke. This allows you to adjust their intake valves. Now, rotate #6 piston to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. You can now adjust the intake valve on #3, #4, #6, and #8, and the exhaust valve on #2, #5, #6, and #7." I did follow that one twice yesterday(even followed it after putting the new cam in last year). Even reset the dist as I though it was off when #1 was up the rotor was pointing at the firewall vs the #1. With the dist reset pointing to the number one cylinder this time I went 360° to adjust the rest of the valves. Upon starting the car it would back fire though the carb 180° I think. Which then in turn would show I adjust the valves on the wrong cycle. If I follow the one for setting the valves via firing order my rotor on the dist is showing number 6 as being fired at this time so I should be able to adjust those valves and both valves are open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I would say...start from scratch. Bring #1 cylinder to TDC firing position and then set the valves accordingly. If you think the distributor is out 180 this will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 For either adjustment for the valves the balancer and the timing mark should be at zero for both #1 and #6 but the rotor pointing towards #6 correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Robert, I'm getting the feeling you are confused with the relationship of the rotor and the crankshaft. I'm sure you know much of this, but none of us here know for sure just how much, so I'll go into detail and others that haven't had alot of experience with this may pick something up. The distributor rotor location has nothing to do with the valve adjustment, as far as showing you what valve is open or closed, unless you are absolutely positive the distributor is installed correctly. Top Dead Center is simply when a piston has reached its highest point and any movement of the crankshaft will cause it to start moving down. Sometimes, authors of valvetrain adjustment write ups simply refer to top dead center, assuming everyone knows they are referring to TDC at the end of the compression stroke, or they just forgot, but the piston actually reaches TDC twice before the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine are completed. When adjusting valves, (setting the lifter preload), or installing a distributor, you must be sure you are at the correct TDC. That is the TDC that occurs at the end of the compression stroke and at the beginning of the power sroke. This is the time both valves will be shut, the combustion chamber is full of the compressed fuel and air mixture, and the spark plug must fire. At this point, again, to avoid confusion, ignore the rotor position, and do this: Bring #1 piston to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. The lifters for #1 cylinder will now be on the heels of their lobes and the valves will be shut. If they aren't, then #1 piston is actually at TDC after the exhaust stroke, and you must turn the crank one complete turn to reach TDC after the compression stroke. Now, if the rocker arms are not loose, back off the adjusting nuts. Retighten one of the nuts until you reach zero lash. Use the "lift and lower the pushrod" method to find zero lash, or spin the pushrod while very slowly tightening the nut to find zero lash. When spinning it, stop when you feel just a little drag. After you are satisfied you have found zero lash, tighten the nut the additional amount recommended by the manufacturer of the lifter. Move to the other valve on the same cylinder and repeat. Next, before you move the crankshaft, check to see where the rotor is pointing. It has to be lined up with #1 plug wire on the cap, or slightly after #1 wire. If it's not, remove the distributor and drop it in correctly. Chevrolet had a standard for where #1 wire plugged into the cap, but it can actually be any one of the 8 positions, as long as #1 is being fired right after #1 piston goes through the compression stroke. After the distributor is correctly installed, turn the crankshaft 1/4 of a turn, or 90 degrees, and work on #8. After setting the lifter preload on #8, turn the crank 1/4 turn and work on #4. When you've completed the lifter preload settings on #4 and #3, turning the crank 1/4 turn will bring the timing mark on the dampener to 0 and #6 is now at TDC and at the end of the compression stroke and at the beginning of the power stroke. At this point, you have made 1 complete turn of the crank after you made your adjustments on #1, and the rotor has only traveled 1/2 turn, or 180 degrees. Perfect. #1 piston is at TDC for the second time and it's at the beginning of the intake stroke. Adjust the preload on #6 and move on. The next time the dampener mark is back to zero, you have gone through all 4 strokes, with #1 piston at the the beginning of the power stroke. The rotor has made one complete turn and you're finished with the adjustments. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieThunder Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The easiest way is too bring the motor to TDC so its ready to FIRE number 1 BOTH Valves will be closed since its firing that cylinder, if you bring it too TDC after it firing then the valves are open. Now rotate the Balancer 90* and do number 8 cylinder and repeat process following firing order that way each cylinders valves are closed ...Now if you want to do it with the TDC #1 and TDC#6 there is certain valves you can do and I can get you the valve numbers its on a paper in my garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Got the valves readjusted this afternoon/evening. Fired it up and still had popping only on the drivers side. So we unhooked the header on the drivers side to see if it is the valve train or the exhaust, and with the header unhooked there is no popping sound. So the plan is to buy so cheap mufflers and change the mufflers out, it will probably be quiet when it is done but that's what looks to be the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Too bad about the muffler, but I'm glad you were able to get the valves set, the distributor's back in, and it's running. Good progress! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtopfuel Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 sam you are right, this is the best method and so simple just follow firing order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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