gooneybird Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hey, Just got my 70 Monte Carlo last night. Will be sure to get some pictures of it up soon. It's got a built 350 with 3000 miles on it, runs good, pretty standard though. I want to get some major power gains in the future but I just don't know what route to take. I want to keep the car street legal but run an 11 or 12 second 1/4. My friend suggested that I should get a 150 shot of nitrous, but I'm still open to other options, perhaps a 383 stroker or even a turbo kit? However if I take the turbo route, I assume it would all have to be custom fabricated and I'm not sure I have the knowledge or the tools to be able to do that. Basic specs are: Stock block +.30 over Scat rotating assembly I-beam rods Spead pro pistons flat top 10.5:1 comp Stock heads 3-angle valve cut Stamped steel rockers Comp cam .456 lift 259° duration Hydraulic lifters Mallory distributor Edelbrock 650 carb Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte72Carlo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 There's a few things that might help you determine what route you want to go. First off, stock blocks are good to about 650hp that's about it unless you go to an aftermarket block (the 650hp is assuming you have splayed main caps, aftermarket rods ect). second quection, do you have forged pistons. I see they are speed pro's but are they forged? If they are your pistons can take the extra 150 shot if they need to. I see you have 10.5:1 compression, which means you might want to switch to a dished if you plan on running a boost application (supercharger, turbo, pro charger) to make good power with a boost application you will want a lower compression ratio for predetonation. just some food for thought. My suggestion for you to see a larger hp gain would be a set of after market heads (afr, world ect.) and a larger cam. something in that .550- .600 range. that alone should net you about 100 or even more above your settup. and your engine would be under carbed so you would need to step up to a 750dp or something around there. with those modifications done, you would then have a stout engine capable of making large numbers with a power adder. IMHO Garrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte72Carlo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 yea, working at a machine shop for a summer and reading forms all day long I catch on quickly. Especially the team chevelle form, those guys know everything about everything to do with engines. Garrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBLB125 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If you want to run 11's or 12's none of that stuff is necessary. A good 350 or 383 combo with around 450-500 HP (flywheel) will get you in the 12-12.4 range. If you're approaching 650 HP you're already in the mid 10's. Using nitrous will severely degrade your motor's longevity. Especially since it doesn't seem like it built with nitrous in mind. Simply having forged pistons isn't really enough to consider an engine nitrous friendly. I really wouldn't recommend this route, however, that's just my opinion and there are many people who live and die by nitrous and will disagree with me A turbo set up will cost you in excess of 5k (probably much more) and will require a lot of custom tubing/headers etc, and again if your motor wasn't built with a boost application in mind you really wont see the full benefits. So long story short if your goal is just high 11's low 12's just beef up your small block and you'll be fine. Personally, I like the 'cool factor' of boost applications and i'll be using a procharger set up with a SBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooneybird Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thats great news, thanks! USMCBLB125, you mention a good combo for a 350 what would you suggest in terms of parts? I'm going to be looking for new cams/heads/carb/pistons but what else can I do apart from that? Oh and it's not manual, I have a 350 tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 it be a lot easier to just drop a 454/502 in it and be done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooneybird Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Actually speaking of 454, I know of someone who is selling one but I didn't really think about it that much. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I don't want to sacrifice too much MPG!! I mean, I love driving this car so much and I understand it costs more to run and maintain and I personally think it's worth it but wouldn't that just be over the top? If anything, I'd get a huge small block rather than a big block! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBLB125 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 As far as what parts to use to build up a small block, the possibilities are endless, and it all starts with your budget. If you're trying to build on the cheap, you can start with a set of cast vortec heads, but if you have the extra coin you can get decent aluminum heads on the cheap too. Just make sure all the components that you choose mesh well together. Especially your cam. Your best bet is to get an idea in mind and call some cam manufacturers and ask them what they recommend for your set up. They can point you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 72yellowmc Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 it be a lot easier to just drop a 454/502 in it and be done with it Junk ... .. nothing personal just an inside joke with sam and myself .. maybe a few others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I agree with burton.. there is no need for nitrous, or forced induction. a mid 12's SMALLBLOCK powered monte is very doable 'on the cam'. I think it was robyn's car that was pulling 12's out of a 350 with vortec heads.. (this is where I'm headed) I figure I'm pushing 300hp now.. or just a smidge more.. and by the time I go to a much bigger cam and better heads, 400hp should be easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm with Allan here. If you want to cruise, have decent MPG, longevity, and run 12's at the track a well thought out BB is the only way to go. Torque wins more races than anything else and a BB makes a ton of it without spinning 7,000+ rpm's. Small block guys will have lot's of arguements for this, but there is no replacement for displacement. It's easy to get to 12 seconds, but to get into the 11's and have an engine that will live long you can easilly double the cost. Don't believe me, or anyone else here(I'd take what anyone else says here including me with a grain of salt) go to NHRA sanctioned track and hang out in the pit area. Ask who's running what and how long stuff lives in that enviroment. There you will get the best education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 A BIG CAR need a BIG BLOCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Torque!! Torque!! Torque....you don't need anything over 6000 rpm with a good size big block. It will take a lot of abuse and remain very civil for street use. My stock carbureted crate motor is getting close to pushing 10's in a 3700 lbs car and I don't run it over 5500......it's all about combo If guys want to run things like NOS that's cool, I would just rather say I did it on motor..JMO....old school I guess...I've had a lot of great small blocks, nothing wrong with that approach but you do have to push them a bit more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 the circle track guys run stock 350's to 7000 rpm all day long race after race..so I don't necciarily agree with 'bigger is better' and we're talking about mid 12's.. not 11's. considering the stock LS engines are putting out 500 hp.. no reason an old school smallbock with good heads cant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 the circle track guys run stock 350's to 7000 rpm all day long race after race..so I don't necciarily agree with 'bigger is better' and we're talking about mid 12's.. not 11's. considering the stock LS engines are putting out 500 hp.. no reason an old school smallbock with good heads cant maybe a LS7 Z06 Tim but that's a pretty expensive and somewhat complicated setup (all the electronics). I might follow a stock 350 that runs at 7000 all day long but at a distance. I think the original post said 11's or maybe 12's, somethinkg like that. Anyway I like small blocks, built many that ran very strong, I just think to move a heavy car torque if your friend and you can get more torque for less money with a big block that all. It's still fun to see a mouse kill a rat though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Someone on here will argue the small block arguement till they are blue, or maybe red in the face, but power to weight ratio is where it's at. At the track look at the heavy full frame cars and the door slammers. What are they running, you guessed it folks, Big Blocks. I love a well built mouse. I used to have a 383 in my monte that ran like a scalded dog, but can't and won't ever pull like my BB does. In a light uni-body car a SB can be a force to recon with, but with 3,700+ pounds of weight they run out of steam down low where it counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBLB125 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 We're forgetting that he has a small block already and he wanted to know how the best ways to get more out of it. Big block was never in the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: USMCBLB125 We're forgetting that he has a small block already and he wanted to know how the best ways to get more out of it. Big block was never in the equation. I think you missed this part of one of his posts up there ^ Originally Posted By: gooneybird Actually speaking of 454, I know of someone who is selling one but I didn't really think about it that much. Allan!!! I'm shocked, you're starting to sound like the media!!!! here's the rest of that post... "If anything, I'd get a huge small block rather than a big block!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Get your popcorn ready because here we go(again). This arguement will never die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Get your popcorn ready because here we go(again). This arguement will never die. well Greg you said it was a little slow right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 That was low Dave. I know what he wants, but we have been around this subject so many times on so many boards that it is just a waste of time talking about a small block that performs well on the street that goes fast on the track. SOOOOOOOOO, when it comes up I speak of big block only. sorry Allan I couldn't resist...my bad.... .....like you and I both said we've had fun with both. From the old days muscle was a big block, all the original muscle cars had big blocks....that's why '65-66 Mustangs were called Pony cars, no big blocks available.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooneybird Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Haha what the hell have I started? Anyway, I'm going to look into this 454 that I spoke of being for sale but I'll see. I'm going to have to compare the price between the upgrades on my 355 and the install of a completely new engine. Thanks for all the advice though, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Haha what the hell have I started? Anyway, I'm going to look into this 454 that I spoke of being for sale but I'll see. I'm going to have to compare the price between the upgrades on my 355 and the install of a completely new engine. Thanks for all the advice though, guys! but now what are we going to debate????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72MC Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Get your popcorn ready because here we go(again). This arguement will never die. Well Greg, I am not going to argue with anybody about this but I will make some comments that you and I have discussed. Originally Posted By: Reds72WMonte Originally Posted By: gooneybird Haha what the hell have I started? Anyway, I'm going to look into this 454 that I spoke of being for sale but I'll see. I'm going to have to compare the price between the upgrades on my 355 and the install of a completely new engine. Thanks for all the advice though, guys! but now what are we going to debate????? Let the debating continue :-). Ultimately a well built big block is the way to go. However, the key phrase is "well built". How many times do we see people throw a big block in their ride, thinking they are unbeatable, only to find they just got smoked by a "streetable" small block. It doesn't take a beast of a small block to wip a plain jane big block. If you have not seen this scenerio, well, open your eyes, no offense intended. As far as small block reliablility at high revolutions, please, did someone really go there. It's a chevy small block, they are the best blocks every made. If your running a small block 6000-9000 rpms constantly (like nascar), well I don't think many engines will have a "LONG LIFE" relatively speaking. Those nascar engines are built to run 501 miles in a 500 mile race. That is not a good comparsion. Thats like saying the nitro fueled big blocks of NHRA are not any good because they have to rebuild them after every race. But, if I build a "built" small block to be a streetable machine and a "rat slayer" :-) , there is no reason I can't have longevity and higher rpms when I need them. Lastly, alot of times it comes down to preference and other tangibles. I personally would love to have a built big block some day. Right now I have three small blocks that are mildly to somewhat radically built. All my spare and new parts are for small blocks and that is just what I do. Same reason that I only deal with 12 bolt rear ends. I perfer to keep things consistant. Also, to offer an opinion about the original question. I think the best power added in the LONG RUN is a ProCharger. It is my opinion based on my research. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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