TH350 to 2004R trans swap

[ss4ever]

Hey guys I have a 200-4R that I am planning on installing in my 72 Monte and I have a few questions.

 

I have heard that for the crossmember all I have to do is move it back to the holes for the TH400 location, correct?

 

I have heard I will be able to re-use my TH350 driveshaft.

 

I have an Edelbrock carburator on my 355 and I bought a bracket to help keep the TV cable tension correct and I bought an adjustable TV cable.

 

My concern at the moment is with my shifter. My car has a factory console shift, what will I need to make this work with my shifter. I know there is a company that makes a shift plate with the correct shift pattern and a plate to catch the shifter itself.

 

What about the bracket and lever on the transmission itself, will I be able to re-use my factory cable and lever and make the bracket work with the 200-4r pan?

 

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

Randy

[Ian]

Here is the conversion kit Shiftworks You have to scroll down a bit to get to the 4 speed kits.

[kc8oye]

yeah everything will work.. you just need to change the the 'shift gate'

 

i swapped in a 700r4, and the only real mod I had to do was have the drive shaft shortened. now I use a bolt-in crossmember (I don't use the rubber isolators) but the holes were in the right spot, I just bolted it to the trans.. wiggled it a bit and the holes lined right up for me.

the factory shift linkage from the column will work just fine even with out the 'shift gate' mods.. especially if it's worn out at all

 

speedo cable will work just fine, cooler line will work just fine.

 

just make sure you get the right bracket to support that TV cable. You may need to add a kit to correct the TV geometry.. I know the holley's need it for the 700r4.. dunno about the 200 with an eddy

[Winston Wolf]

Hey guys I have a 200-4R that I am planning on installing in my 72 Monte and I have a few questions.

 

I have heard that for the crossmember all I have to do is move it back to the holes for the TH400 location, correct? It will work, just line up the holes when you get the trans set in. You can't screw it up. Keep in mind the bolts that attach the rear mount to the trans are metric.

 

I have heard I will be able to re-use my TH350 driveshaft. If you have the front yoke with the large collar on it, it will not fit over the tailshaft. You will need to change the front yoke to one without it.

 

I have an Edelbrock carburator on my 355 and I bought a bracket to help keep the TV cable tension correct and I bought an adjustable TV cable. What bracket did you get? They are not all created equally. Holley? TV Made Easy?

 

My concern at the moment is with my shifter. My car has a factory console shift, what will I need to make this work with my shifter. I know there is a company that makes a shift plate with the correct shift pattern and a plate to catch the shifter itself. Buy the plate you are talking about. There are several places that offer them.

 

What about the bracket and lever on the transmission itself, will I be able to re-use my factory cable and lever and make the bracket work with the 200-4r pan? You should be able to make what you have work.

 

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

Get a pressure gauge for setup. And start thinking about how you want the lockup to work. It can be as easy or as complicated as you want to make it, but it's nice to have the wiring done inside the transmision before it is put in the car. Make sure you have the correct drive gear for the speedometer so you won't have to take it all apart to change later. The cooler lines are opposite from a TH350, and it's unlikely you will be able to bend them enough to make them work without kinking. Bowtie Overdrives has a cooler line kit that is really nice. You can re-use the stock TH350 dipstick, but you will need to remark the level mark.

 

Randy

[Slaman]

Originally Posted By: ss4ever

You can re-use the stock TH350 dipstick, but you will need to remark the level mark.

 

Randy

I'm not to sure about that. I've tried a dipstick tube for a 700r4 and one of those universal jobs for Th350, etc, etc, etc, but it don't fit in mine. the hole in the case sits farther back.

 

Steve

[Winston Wolf]

Originally Posted By: Winston Wolf

Originally Posted By: ss4ever

You can re-use the stock TH350 dipstick, but you will need to remark the level mark.

 

Randy

I'm not to sure about that. I've tried a dipstick tube for a 700r4 and one of those universal jobs for Th350, etc, etc, etc, but it don't fit in mine. the hole in the case sits farther back.

 

Steve

 

Well, I am saying it does. I have the original dipstick from my TH350 in my 200-4r.

 

And I have a universal one sitting in a box that didn't work.

[ss4ever]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140077482415&viewitem=

 

I got the bracket from Ebay, I hope it works ok, if it doesn't I will always swear it should have

 

I have the correct 200-4R dipstick tube.

 

As for the lockup I have actually been planning on just not running one, I have left them unplugged before without any trouble. Honestly from what I have experienced with aftermarket controllers for the lockup none of them function like the factory did. I may decide later this summer to try to wire the lockup up to a switch and have it run through the brake light switch.

[Slaman]

Originally Posted By: Slaman

Originally Posted By: Winston Wolf

Originally Posted By: ss4ever

You can re-use the stock TH350 dipstick, but you will need to remark the level mark.

 

Randy

I'm not to sure about that. I've tried a dipstick tube for a 700r4 and one of those universal jobs for Th350, etc, etc, etc, but it don't fit in mine. the hole in the case sits farther back.

 

Steve

 

Well, I am saying it does. I have the original dipstick from my TH350 in my 200-4r.

 

And I have a universal one sitting in a box that didn't work.

Maybe that's my problem. The universal I have don't fit either after the guy at the transmission shop said it would. and my Th350 dipstick tube I sold with the tranny. I was thinking since the universal don't fit and I have to have it capable of moving under its own power by next week (closing on the new house Monday) I would cut it and attach it to my broken tube. All I need is the section that necks down into the case. Maybe I can heat up the one piece and slip it in the other and put some JB-weld on it for a temporary fix. I've supposed to have one on the way but I've got no time to wait. Have to get the garage packed and way too much other stuff to do before next week.

 

As for my lock up, I'm going to let the computer handle that since I've converted over to TPI.

Good luck on your swap. Let us know how you like it.

[Winston Wolf]

 

Maybe you can just bend the universal one enough or change where it bolts to the engine to make it work?

[Winston Wolf]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140077482415&viewitem=

 

I got the bracket from Ebay, I hope it works ok, if it doesn't I will always swear it should have

 

I have the correct 200-4R dipstick tube.

 

As for the lockup I have actually been planning on just not running one, I have left them unplugged before without any trouble. Honestly from what I have experienced with aftermarket controllers for the lockup none of them function like the factory did. I may decide later this summer to try to wire the lockup up to a switch and have it run through the brake light switch.

 

I'm sure that bracket will work. You also need a proper bracket to hold the cable. Like this.

 

You can run you trans unlocked, but if it's not built with that intent, it will want to run hotter than it should. Watch the temp closely if you do. (You might consider running a temp gauge for these things)

 

I agree that the lockup can be frustrating, but you can just run a simple setup for now. Let me know if you need help with how to hook it up.

[Monteman1971]

There is an article on this swap in the January 2011, Hemmings Motor News (page 76). It says the lock-up should always be used or the torgue converter will slip too much, which can lead to early transmission failure... and that it can be something as simple as a toggle switch.

 

My 2 cents,

Steve

[kc8oye]

steve.. the only problem with not being locked up, is that it does tend to generate a lot of heat. as long as you have a good trans cooler, it's really not an issue, but why wouldn't you hook the lock up?

 

on my 700r4 swap, I switched my FGMC brake light switch out for something from the 80's no idea what it was. .my dad had it in a box. might have been for my 89 olds cutlass cierra not sure. .but it fit it has the extra set of switch contacts on it for the Torque converter clutch switch. it works just the opposite of the brake lights, it goes OPEN when you step on the pedal.

 

so i ran ran 12v through a togggle switch on the dash, down to that switch on the brake peadal, and over to the trans.

 

I just flick the switch and it's on.. if I have to hit the brakes in an emergency, it will unlock. (until I take my foot off the brake)

 

i really only use my TCC when i'm on the freeway, or I'm on a 55mph back road for more then a few minutes.. otherwise it gets to be a pain toggling it on and off all the time.

 

my particular 700r4 allows me to use lock up in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. .so occasionally if I'm on a 45mph road for a long time I'll put the trans in 3rd and hit the switch

[Andy's Auto]

Got to pick my own brain on this one, but I remember a 4th gear pressure switch you either tap into or add and the trans will lock up on its own without a ghetto toggle switch. Runs through the brakelight switch fron a later car with cruise. I am putting a 2004r in my 68 tomorrow. I should have it figured out by them I hope.

[Winston Wolf]

I don't want you to have to think too hard Andy.... There is usually a 4th gear psi switch installed in the valve body. There are 2 common switches used, and each is wired differently. The 2 wire style would be wired hot to the switch, then to the sol, with sol grounded. 1 wire style would be wired on the ground side of sol.

 

The only think i dont like about it is they have a big drop when it shifts and locks at the same time.

[DavidTX]

There is this one:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/700R4-Forth-Gear-Torque-Converter-Lock-Up-Switch-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2098e78e89QQitemZ140004265609QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

and several others listed on ebay. This particular one is what I have installed on mine. The other vacuum type is what I had installed on another car and I actually prefer the vacuum type. It is also wired into the brake switch and disengages anytime you put on your brakes.

[amsterdam84]

^

|

|

|

Linkythingamabob

[kc8oye]

the problem with using an automatic 4th gear lockup, is it leads to a 3-4 shift 'busyness' problem. because to accelerate, the trans has to come out of 4th gear to unlock.

 

the difference in drivability is really quite noticeable when you can unlock w/o downshifting.

 

my stock 700r4 in my astrovan had the same problem.. it's factory calibration put the torque converter unlock point PAST the 4-3 downshift point... after my dad and I changed that.. it drove a LOT nicer on the freeway.. it virtually stopped the 3-4-3 hunting problem.

[Winston Wolf]

the problem with using an automatic 4th gear lockup, is it leads to a 3-4 shift 'busyness' problem. because to accelerate, the trans has to come out of 4th gear to unlock.

 

the difference in drivability is really quite noticeable when you can unlock w/o downshifting.

 

my stock 700r4 in my astrovan had the same problem.. it's factory calibration put the torque converter unlock point PAST the 4-3 downshift point... after my dad and I changed that.. it drove a LOT nicer on the freeway.. it virtually stopped the 3-4-3 hunting problem.

 

I sort of agree with this. That's why people wire in an adjustable vacuum switch and a vacuum delay valve. Then as the engine begins to see a load above normal cruising throttle input, it will release the TCC.

 

If anyone cares, I can go into more detail on exactly how to wire things and how the cars react with different setups. I have tried multiple combinations.

[kc8oye]

i was going to do something fancy, but then I found that the toggle switch works just fine like I said.. I only use it when i'm on the freeway.

 

I was taught to drive in such a manner as to never unlock the torque converter clutch anyway (in a computer controled engine)

 

so for me I flip the switch and have little reason to ever unflip it.. lol