AndyBill402 Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 In the February 05 issue of Car Craft, on page 18, is an article about the 71 Monte Carlo 454. It's all stuff we know until the very end when the article reads, "The Holy Grail of '71 Monte Carlos is the special-order LS6 model. Though not on the order form, 10 of these 450hp machines, several with four-speed transmissions, cruised out of the factory." I've heard rumors of an LS6, but I've never seen any authenticated documentation. Anyone care to comment? Andrew Offutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchieB Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 I’m not sure totally (my memory is a bit choppy) but this is how it goes. A member here swore that a friend of his has two of them and that they were factory LS6's. Our basic response as a group was "Show us the MONEY (build sheet) to prove it" Leo Konik was given a contact number and spoke with the person on behalf of the club and if I remember they were either GM executive cars that were special ordered or some type of COPO cars again special ordered. The person didn't want/like a lot of attention and this is as far as it went. I'm not sure if Leo ever saw the build sheets though? Now this is what I remember ... it could be wrong ... I was thinking about this the other day and wrote for you what I generally remember. The best person to answer this would be Leo though. MarchieB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejw71 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 A 1st Gen SS454 with a LS6 and/or a 4-speed hasn't been documented. Build sheets, VINs, and Pro-tect-o plates are documents. The Monte Carlo Owners Association and FGMCC have not come across such info in their many years of existence. Sgt Ed of the SS454 Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 BREAKING NEWS! We just had a member sign up who claims to have a LS-6 Monte SS with the correct build sheet! I asked him to scan and e-mail it to me, let's see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Andreas , i have seen the build sheet and it does look legit , i told him i would let him post when he was ready and also put him in touch with the NMCOA , if the car is real it would be the first, he was in the process of verifying the engine was vin coded and if the vin is not on the engine or the engine comes back as an ls5 i am not sure what to think , as the build sheet does appear to be real lets see Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 very cool, that will be a first!! More info please...options etc. Can't wait to see a copy...hope he comes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Andreas , i have seen the build sheet and it does look legit , i told him i would let him post when he was ready and also put him in touch with the NMCOA , if the car is real it would be the first, he was in the process of verifying the engine was vin coded and if the vin is not on the engine or the engine comes back as an ls5 i am not sure what to think , as the build sheet does appear to be real lets see Leo Yeah, I asked him for the CPY code on the engine and if it has a holley carb and the Protect-o-plate. The carb code on the POP should show a Holley carb if this is a LS6... I could not make out the carb code on the build sheet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wiles Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 wow this is a BREAKTHROUGH if its real!! the INFAMOUS LS6 has shown up after 35 years?!?!?! I'm real excited and glad it came to light here at the FGMCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 If this is true I am incredibly jealous..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 i am hoping he will be willing to post a copy here , but it is his choice and i will not make him feel that he has to do so , i would love to see the car in person , will the club pay for a trip to have me verify the car, Kevin , Andreas , are you guys in for a road trip ps I will contact him via phone and see what his feelings are about posting his build sheet Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Kevin , Andreas , are you guys in for a road trip ps I will contact him via phone and see what his feelings are about posting his build sheet That will be a heck of a road trip considering where he lives... Leo, he already mentioned to me that he would not like to have the buildsheet posted at this time, since he wants to make sure he has no fake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mau Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 wow this is a BREAKTHROUGH if its real!! the INFAMOUS LS6 has shown up after 35 years?!?!?! I'm real excited and glad it came to light here at the FGMCC. Man, no kidding! Oh, and Andrew - not everything that is stated in the little Car Craft article is correct. I don't have it in front of me, but from what I remember they really didn't acknowledge that a SS454 existed in '70 and that the production numbers were wrong. There's another message thread about this in this SS454 forum called "Car Craft Muscle Car of the Month" that was started by jrb70454, in case you haven't seen/read through it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Hey guys, I don't own one of these great cars, but I'm old and was around when they were new. A couple of things I want to say. If the '71 is an LS6 and it's an RPO, it would be 425 h.p. since the '71 cars had lower compression. This car may well exist, I've been told I was crazy more than once because I helped put headers on a '71 Cevelle LS6 car. The Chevelle guys beat me down that none were built even though GM's own records show 6-12 were built. In the summer of 1971 a friend and I installed headers on a '71 LS6 Chevelle. It was red/ black interior, t-400 column shift, bench seat car. It belonged to a black man from Elizabeth City, NC, I think he bought it from Colonial Chevy in Norfolk, VA. At that time they were big into performance cars. The car we worked on only had 5-6k miles at the time, it had 4.10/4.11 gears, (can't remember which they used in 12 bolts) Holley carb, aluminum intake, solid lifters and a big 454 cubic inch/425 H.P. decal on the air cleaner. I can't remember, for the life of me if it was Cowl Induction, but I'm betting it was.(I was 19 at the time) We didn't know then, why it "only" had 425 h.p., we found out later about the drop in c.r. Well that's my story about 1971 LS6 cars, believe it or don't, I was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLASSIK1 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 thanks Randy that was great to read , i am a believer that anything could and did happen , in that era as well as today, i have worked many years in the auto industry and that was a specail time and they built what people wanted , so i see no reason an LS6 Monte could not have been built or a build error who knows hopefully this car checks out Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427monte Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I saw an article in Muscle Car Review (March 2000) about a Supercar reunion. In that article they showed a small picture of a 1970 LS6 SS Monte Carlo that was built by Dick Harrell. The owner at that time was someone named Tim Pestinger from Saline, Kansas. Has anyone seen this car or has heard of other COPO Monte Carlos? I don't know if this car was legit or not, I just happened to see it in the magazine. By the way, I'm finally a member of this club. Just signed up last week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wiles Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 YES it is true about the dick harrell ls6 monte carlo BUT it was not a factory ls6, the ls6 was added when at the dealer. the owner was a club member at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 In 1986 at the National Chevelle Owners Association Convention in Peoria, IL. a speaker from the Tonawanda, NY GM engine plant made a presentation on production facts. His name is Fran Preve and Chevrolet gave him access to all of their records of production because he was a "gear head" Chevy racer. He was the "informal" source/pipeline for Chevrolet production facts to clubs and individuals. For a short while he penned a column for a Chevy magazine but then got cancer and had to stop. I asked him about the 1970-71 LS-6 Monte Carlo and he said "no". I doubted it and got somewhat upset because Monte's and Chevelle's were made in the same plant. He had the production records and said "no". I believe him. Over the years we became closer acquaintenaces and my confidence grew in his facts. He said Chevy has the records to confirm the legitimacy of a car but didn't want to make it available like Pontiac Historical because of the huge volume. In a recent magazine it was mentioned than Chevy was thinking about offering this service. I have believed they can do it because if you have a Canadian built Chevelle you can supply them the VIN and in return get the production information,, build sheet and a confirmation letter. If Canada can do it, so can US. As a side note, Fran told me of several one-off cars built that got out. We have found two. A Z-16 300 Deluxe and a '72 El Monte (El Camino with a Monte front end). I have pictures of both. The "El Monte" I also have on video tape. In a recent National Monte Carlo Owners newsletter there was a question if a "Monte El Camino" was built and the response was no; but it was in Baltimore and was found in Virginia. Fran Preve knew one had been built and called the GM employee he knew who helped build it, and legitimacy was confirmed at the National Chevelle Owners Assoc. Convention in Nashville in 1992. In fact, it was for sale for $6,500, and when it was confirmed, the owner ran through the security at the Convention to take the for sale sign out. It hasn't been seen since. As he was running to the car, I was yelling "I'll give you asking price". No deal. Fran didn't advertise the weird cars built by Chevy because they might be faked. It is neat to know this weird stuff and put the puzzles together and find them. The 300 Deluxe Z-16 was found by Mark Meekins, founder of the National Chevelle Owners Assoc, (and the nation's #1 Z-16 expert)in TN. in 2001. Fran first told us about it at the NCOA Convention in Columbus, OH. when a mechanic from the Detroit area told him about a weird '65 Chevelle he had worked on with a big block and hydraulic lifters (a Z-16 distinctive, the only high horsepower big block with hydraulic lifters); Fran told him to go find that car. It has since has been found by several collectors who are now after it in the worst way. The value of this car I cannot even estimate. It was a GM exec car. It is my theory that the magical "convertible" of the 201 Z-16's that has never been found is actually this 300 Deluxe. If you want to know more, let me know. I might start putting this stuff on the www.chevelle-club.com website under "tech" or I'll make up a new section titled "Interesting Facts". if they are finding these cars, I may as well get what I know out there so history cannot be changed. Because of these circumstances of Fran's telling me of these odd cars and them coming through, I believe his comment that there were no LS-6 Montes made. There were Chevelles and Vettes in '71 with LS-6s. I love this stuff. If you'd like to know what he said to the Corvette guys that made them mad, let me know and I'll post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill402 Posted March 13, 2005 Author Share Posted March 13, 2005 GPrimm, Thankyou for taking the time to share that information with us. Could you comment on, or find out why and how Car Craft seems to know that 10 '71 Monte Carlo LS6 vehicles were built. Car Craft seemed very specific, even mentioning that several had 4-speeds. Someone, somewhere, had to supply them with that information. But, it does seem that after these years, if an LS6 was out there, it would have surfaced by now. It's like trying to find Big Foot. Andrew Offutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Andy, Car Craft and magazines only know what they are told by "those in the know". For Chevelle and Z-16 information they often go to Mark Meekins in N.C. Dollar-to-donuts they do not know about the 300 Deluxe. Only after a collector offers the brother of the deceased GM exec enough money will they become aware / print it. Mpntes just aren't as popular and there hasn't been a large amount of info. in magazines. There are 50 articles on Chevelles for every one on the Monte Carlo. Until 10 years ago they didn't know a "pre-production" Z-16 was built, even Mark Meekins was offered it and he rejected it because it didn't seem right. Floyd Garrett of Garrett MuscleCar Museum in Seivervile, TN. bought it and had it restored. Suddenly, every magazine was featuring it and Mark was kicking himself. Sorry to say, the Monte's for some reason don't appreciate in value as much as the Chevelles. It is odd; the same frame, engine, options (exc. LS-6) and built in the same plant, yet you can get a Monte SS454 for 1/2 the price of a Chevelle SS454 of the same year. I guess that is good because we'll always be able to afford them. If there was an LS-6 Monte, it would have been found. Regarding the 4-speeds, there are 350 and 402's out there from the factory with 4-speed. I have seen a 1971 Monte with a powerglide trans and one with a manual 3-speed. Could it have been made? I don't believe so. Fran Preve knew of these "one-off" production vehicles and they were later found & confirmed. No official confirmation from Chevy. I believe Fran would have told me about an LS-6 Monte if Chevrolet production records had shown one being built. On the contrary, he was very emphatic that one was NOT built. In all the other instances he just got a glint in his eye and smiled. For years an LS-6 4-speed Monte was bouncing around Northern IL. It was for sale at a large car muscle car broker in Northern Illinois. It was eventually purchased by a friend of a member of the Northern Illinois Chevelle Club and they excitedly told me about it. There was a "build-sheet". I was actually excited about the possibility of finally seeing this "holy grail" of first generation Monte owners. Guess what, it wasn't real. He got his money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 There was a "build-sheet". I was actually excited about the possibility of finally seeing this "holy grail" of first generation Monte owners. Guess what, it wasn't real. He got his money back. Tell us more how you found out that the Monte SS was not "real"... What did not match the build sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 When I was told about the car I asked to see the buildsheet and when they asked why I said the buildsheet will give me the build date, sequence number, ordering dealer, Chevrolet Zone, etc. The buyer was a friend of a Northern Illinois Chevelle Club member so when they told the seller the "buildsheet" was going to be shown to someone who knows, the sale was voided. That was about 7 years ago and I believe the car has quietly been "de-SSified". Several knowledgable Chevelle people saw the car in the showroom and after crawling under and around it, did not believe it was a factory installed 4-speed or LS-6. At that time, no "buildsheet" was offered or shown to any of the interested parties. Someone who doesn't know would look at something and assume it is a buildsheet, but those who have been around the cars know. I believe that is why when it was mentioned someone who know something about this was going to see it, things suddenly stopped. Andreas, my family and I will be in Pigeon Forge in 2 weeks, from Monday, March 28th through Thursday. How far are you from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Years ago, for about 3 years straight (early/mid 80's??) there was a triple black SS 70 Monte that was always bragged as on of the 12 LS6 cars that were built and always shown at the London Autorama. Have not seen it for years, and wish I would have paid more attention to it as far as documentation went.I was too busy wetting my pants every time i saw it. On a side note..... years ago I used to show my 1970 COPO Nova with the LT-1 in it. At Super Chevy in Martin Michigan I always used to run into a guy that claimed he had a budy that was the son of a GM exec and that he had ordered a LT-1 Monte in 1970 and drove it around for years, complete with the dual snorkle air cleaner. You never say never, but has anyone ever heard of that unit???? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wiles Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 still all we have are rumors. there is no proof that there is, and there is no proof that there isn't. I hope somehow the supposed ls6 turns out to be real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I believe that is why when it was mentioned someone who know something about this was going to see it, things suddenly stopped. Andreas, my family and I will be in Pigeon Forge in 2 weeks, from Monday, March 28th through Thursday. How far are you from there? Makes sense. Now, with this Monte, he has an original looking buildsheet with the LS-6 option on it. Let's see how it is gonna turn out... I am about 30 miles West of Pigeon Forge... Let me know if you wanna meet up... Right now we have a 6 month old Foster-son, so we are really limited with going out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprimm Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Show me the buildsheet. Has anayone seen a buildsheetor is it just "I have a buildsheet"? Unless the buildsheet is seen, authenticated and the car is verified it's just talk and conjecture. Would I like to see an LS-6 Monte? Absolutely. People I know have been talking about this since 1984 and not a single example has been brought out. If I had a legit LS-6 monte with paperwork, you better believe it'd be seen. on the otherhand, since the Monte and Chevelle were made at the same plant, using a Chevelle as an example, an LS-6 Monte could be "cloned" easily, but only an LS-6 expert would know all the details, so authenticating it wouldn't be that hard. I've got all the parts numbers for LS-6's (carbs, dist, alt., etc.) I don't believe it until the buildsheet is made public. Kevin, I'll meet you in SC in a few weeks when I get the trim parts. Looking forward to my trip south. I found lots of parts for Montes in the junkyards along 123 in Easley for years. Love the South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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