carb/engine or vacumn issue

[72jrfan88]

Hello All. Recently I just finished fixing a rear hung parking brake where my right wheel was locked up. Finally got it unstuck and went for a ride the last couple days. Not sure if its coincidence or if I messed something up when fixing the rear parking brakes. After I warm the car out it runs great for about a 10 minute drive around town. Then all of a sudden usually after I either stop at a red light or slow down for one the engine begins missing to the point I cant even accelerate. If im going slow enough, it will actually stall out. It only stalled as I was pulling back into my garage. During the ride I had to coast the car because if I hit the gas it would begin to actually jerk,or bog terribly, almost feeling the car bounce in the front.It seems weird for it to run so great for about 10 minutes and then have this happen two days in a row, after a similar drive. Before my emergency brake fix, i never experienced this until now. At first i thought the brake could still be hung up, but its definately not as the car rolls freely and my e brake pedal is back up to its normal spot. Its a hard condition to explain, but the best way is pushing on the gas and actually slowing you down, slight sputters but no smoke.But running just great 10 minutes prior!Is there any real basic areas to check,(like vacumn ect.) I want to take it for a ride again this morning but i dont want to harm the engine. For info it is a 1972 350 4 brl Rochester Quadrajet manufactured by Carter.

 

Thanks in advance

[Sam (Bones)]

fuel filter

[footballubet]

Sounds fuel related. If you don't know the last time the fuel filter was replaced, that would be a start. You can cut the old filter open and inspect for any debris that has been caught. Could also be a choke pull-off that is not working. Check to see if the choke is closed when the engine is cold and opens as it warms up.

[72jrfan88]

Ok thanks for the input....the fuel filter was just done last month unless it was installed wrong would that cause this? Also I added a couple more pics of a couple parts that look like the should be hooked up..one looks like a solenoid with spots for hoses with none connected..another is a bavy blue type ground wire haning freely by my voltage area..front driver side near washer resevoir and canister. Could this cause anything?

 

http://s754.photobucket.com/albums/xx188...zpseb9b8e17.jpg

[72jrfan88]

Sounds fuel related. If you don't know the last time the fuel filter was replaced, that would be a start. You can cut the old filter open and inspect for any debris that has been caught. Could also be a choke pull-off that is not working. Check to see if the choke is closed when the engine is cold and opens as it warms up.

 

I tried to check for this. But today I'm having a hard time even getting it to keep running. Strong smell of gas and idles real low and engine shakes before it cuts out. Almost wonder what a flooding condition may be like.I really have to crank it much longwr to grt it to fire up. Before it cut out the carb made a small popping noise spurted some gas and smoked a tiny bit

[montefrazer]

" Almost wonder what a flooding condition may be like."

 

If it is flooding, there will be black smoke coming out the tail pipe. Same thing if it floods out and dies. Would need to floor the gas pedal to start it and exhaust would be very dark. Do you still have a points distributor? If so, when were they last replaced? If recently, were they gapped right? Your picture shows part of the TCS system. Most people have disconnected it and it won't be a problem unless the vacuum line to it isn't plugged. Are you near Milwaukee/Racine area? Willing to look at it in person if you're close.

[72jrfan88]

Thanks for the reply. Yes. It is the original distributor still..even the spark plugs are original I believe. Ac remy plugs with the green spiral pattern. I got this car from a 70 yr old lady. Alot of maitenance records but none involving items above. Since 1984 only 10 k miles were put on it and it has 62k orig miles. It sat a lot so I'm sure I have alot of work to do. I'm just north of milwaukee border in menomonee falls. If it ran properly I could probably even meet you somewhere. Today I had to baby the throttle with my foot to get it to warm up without stalling but I didn't take it out. I did some idle mixture screw adjustments during this process and seemed it was the only way to keep it from stalling. I'm curious on where that ground wire goes in my pic. Even after I shut it down to restart it the crank sounded much different then normal..quiter crank but almost like it was laboring but still started everytime. No black smoke, no smoke at all. Just a very rich smelling fuel that burn the eyes once idling rough. Thanks for your help. If your not to far I could definately arrange a meet or something if I get it runinng good enough.

 

Take care eric

[72jrfan88]

Update. After a overnight sit I attempted to start and it usually goes into fast idle ...but for the past couple days it just starts right up at a low idle and will stumble out unless you keep trying to start it and work the gas pedal. A little white smoke when idling and idles a bit rough. Still yet to take it for a drive. I recently got a new thermostat and radiator and they overfilled coolant..it dumped a lot out overflow and is really low now inside radiator..not sure if this could be a factor

[Sam (Bones)]

sounds lean to me

[wallaby]

It could be so many things. My gut says it's a choke issue...maybe stuck somewhere or a linkage fell off? There is also a choke pull-off that is vacuum operated, could have gone bad.

 

You need to do an underhood check with the air cleaner off. First check to see if the choke flap is closing all the way...a slight tap on the gas pedal should set the linkage and the choke flap should close.

Then once the engine is started, is the choke beginning to open? It should be partly open, and slowly open fully as the engine warms up.

[72jrfan88]

Thanks mark. Yes the flap definetly closes when setting the choke..I had a harf time getting it to fully warm up at first because it kept dying but today I got it to warm a bit. It just seems like its idiling so low.usually that engine compartment is bouncing the windshield washer resvoir.now its so quiet. The flap did open during this.I will have to check for parts that may of fell off. Maybe I will try taking some pictures of all the main components tomorrow.

 

Thanks again

[Sam (Bones)]

could the distributor maybe moved?

is the vacuum to the distributor still hooked up?

does your carb have a throttle kicker? is the wire to it still hooked up?

 

some things to check

[72jrfan88]

Yes. Vacumn line looks good. Is there a way to tell if distributor moved.it seems pretty secure. And as far as a throttle kicker...is that the small cylinder object on drivers side of carb with a brown plug with wire attached..it seems like it can go in and out but not disconnect?

[VE3HZZ]

Just a question but since all this started have you put gas in it? Or have you been idling it it at home and not had to?

 

If you have not open the gas cap.

 

Also when you did the emergency brake cable was the car raised up in the back or the front? or both?

 

Have you checked the fuel pump (mechanical) and that it is putting out at least 4 PSI at idle (you can hook up one if you have a rubber hose after the fuel pump.

 

Also the fuel pump sits close the the frame and the steel line from the tank runs through the frame and on some there is a small rubber 3/8 line that goes from it into the fuel pump (on some cars) and if it is kinked (or maybe it did when you worked on it).

 

It maybe more then 1 thing your dealing with now, but if everything ELSE was the same JUST BEFORE you did the Emergency brake and now THIS condition I would stick with a possible fuel problem. A 70 has a vented gas cap unless someone replaced it as there is no vent or return line on those.

 

Maybe I am off here but just reading the posts and that you said it was fine JUST before you jacked it up and did some work suggests either A) you touched something else or moved it? or This was a coincidence and it was going to do this anyway.

 

I have other ideas. but you don't want to start chasing your tail. I would say to check FIRST the FUEL and delivery system from front to back (as I think some of it you have already.

Then ignition if the fuel is fine and in spec.

The ignition would be check the points and if there set correctly, the distributor cap has no cracks or carbon track marks, the coil is also fine and fully connected. Then the vacuum lines are all connected and base plate of carb is not cracked or leaking (they get brittle after 40 years!!!

 

Sorry maybe too much to check...start with the fuel and work from there would be my suggestion fwiw.

 

Good luck keep us posted.

 

Scott

[72jrfan88]

Thx scott. That is a beautiful color on that monte by the way!!! Anyways my fuel pump is new along with the steel line(I know they can still fail though) I didn't ever need to jack car up at all to do brake repair I just slid under. Mine is as 72 so does that have a special gas cap? I also never thought of checking a crimped rubber gas line.maybe I bumped it when pulling on the brake lines! I will definately Check these items. It did run great before the brake fix. I always had a issue with needing to warm it up along time before putting it in gear or it would stall out. But this is that spring part thermostat. I've learned to deal with that..but never encountered this

 

Update..checked gas cap it was on tight but was full of crud on the center vent on both sides.Im sure its always been this way but I cleaned it up.I check things tomorrow

 

Any other ideas are appreciated

[wallaby]

I'm wondering if it could be something simple or stupid like a fouled spark plug or bad plug wire. That's something that could come from nowhere and give you issue.

 

We've talked about a lot of things in this thread. It's hard to diagnose a problem over the internet, but lets focus on what it's doing.

So you did some parking brake stuff, and suddenly the engine runs lousy. You describe it as not wanting to stay running...does that mean it runs rough, or slow? and will it stay running if you attend to it, or even then it's hard to keep going? Warm, cold...any difference? Does it slowly start dying out, and come back to life with some throttle or runs like crap no matter what you do? Is there ever a point where it runs ok?

 

I'm just trying to break it down so you can find your issue without having to disassemble everything for inspection. It could be a fuel or ignition problem, but fuel problems tend to show up under high-load conditions, and not so much at idle...unless it's something in the carburetor itself like a sunken or stuck float or a choke issue. That cylinder thingy with vacuum fittings isn't the problem. That is for emissions and 99% of us have them unhooked.

[Sam (Bones)]

I still think you should pull your fuel filter and check it to eliminate it as a problem, even if it was changed a month ago, these cars are 40+ years old and the tank could have a bunch of crap in it, especially if it has sat for any period of time.

 

what you described in your first post is typical for what happens when a fuel filter is getting plugged or a fuel pump failing, you must properly check these things to eliminate them from being the problem.

 

then these are eliminated as/or not the problem

 

pull the filter and blow thru it, you should be able to easily! blow thru it, you can also use carb cleaner and squirt thru the filter in the reverse direction into a cup and see if some crud comes out of it

[72jrfan88]

Well guys. I decided to pull the rubber fuel line going to the fuel pump and to my suprise no fuel was pouring out and just a small drip coming from pump inlet..so I blew air through it and fuel rushed back out.I was very confident this was the issue..I hooked the line back up to fuel pump and once again idled real slowly..then when it hit the gas it stumbles and don't rev up properly..let off goes back to light idle. I was almost positive that no fuel in the line was the issue!!! I can tell the pump seems to be working because when I pinch the rubber line I can feel suction. I still think this is fuel related and am beginning to think filter like sam said. I have to pick up a line wrench first so I don't twist the metal line (might of learned the hard way before) I do notice that on the front of my carb where it says "filter" there has been a dark gas residue very small that seems to cover that housing. Could this be the issue?? Any input is great. Thank you allso much

[Sam (Bones)]

if the filter has crap in it, it's coming from the tank

 

there is a "sock" on the fuel pick up in the tank and if it's clogged it will not let fuel get to the pump like you are describing

there is ways to test/check this but it isn't the safest thing to do

to me it sounds like you are starving for fuel

[72jrfan88]

I agree. Do you still think its best to start at the filter again? Even though the line was plugged initially I blew it out now fuel is rushing out of it into the pump. I would think it should fire up after clearing that line even if the "sock" is clogged up but. I have a feeling when I rocked the car back and forth for the parking brake issue caused this..I heard the gas really sloshing around..or am I way off here? Or maybe rock it back and forth again to dislodge?

[Sam (Bones)]

always start with the easiest, check your filter

[72jrfan88]

I poured some fresh gas directly into carb and started and it finally seemed to give me my high idle back..but not for long. I'm assuming filter is plugged. Anyone know proper size fuel line wrench? I'm thinking 5\8?

[footballubet]

1"on the housing fitting and 5/8" line wrench is what you need.

[72jrfan88]

Well it looks like the filter wasn't the issue..I put a new one on just in case. Once again low idle give it gas and seems to skip. More of a white smoke (not heavy just haze) strong smelling exhaust. It idles ok but I just can't find that high idle I usually get right when its started. Could bad gas be the issue? I only have a little over 1/4 tank left. I thought about adding about 5 gallons or so to see. While in park I was now able to rev engine good..once the rpms back back down it stumbled a bit..but once I put it in gear and drive forward and hit the gas it stumbles and misses pretty bad to the point it almost feels like it would cut out if I kept going. Also seems like more condensation than normal coming out of pipes. But that could be just from all these small starts and running sessions

[Sam (Bones)]

ok you eliminated the filter so now to check the pump

 

disconnect the fuel line from the carb and hook a rubber line to it, run it into a container, fill the carb with gas thru the vent, start engine and see if it pumping a decent amount of fuel