MCfan

Beautiful work, Willie! What's your shipping address?

Sounds like you are making progress on solving your power window issues. Since you will be replacing your power window relay, I assume you are aware of its well-hidden power window location? If it is the same on a '72 as a '70 it is in the lower cowl area behind the driver's side kick panel. I found it nearly impossible to remove that kick panel on my non-factory AC car because the lower Astro Vent grill and housing screws have to be removed first and the park brake assembly is right in the way. However, if you have a factory AC car, it may be a snap. I actually installed the relay through the hole I cut in the cowl for the accordian grommet. If I hadn't already had the door off, I'm not sure I would have been able to install the relay in the factory location without removing the park brake assembly to gain access to the housing screws. Here's a couple of pics. Good luck replacing yours.

Congratulations, Darren! She's rare and beautiful! Glad you were able to close the deal and get her home safely. Hope you recover soon and get to feeling well enough to really enjoy her! Nice pics - thanks for sharing.

Wow, only a BLUE Monte would be worth trailering 17 hours!

The beat goes on! Congratulations on your continued success, Dave! Do I understand that you relocated your residence to Oregon and are now racing in a new/better venue? Other than the track, are there also atmospheric conditions that are more favorable there? Seems like your Chevelle is crazy fast for a naturally aspirated motor. How much further (faster) do you think it is feasible to go? Thanks for sharing the video. You have a good videographer.

Love the classic, sofisticated look of your '71 SS, Larry! Do you know the origin of your sport mirrors? Are they from a later Monte or other GM model?

The symptoms you describe point to the master switch in the driver's door. If the front passenger window will operate correctly using the single switch in that door, it is almost certainly a faulty master switch. I doubt that your window relay is faulty as it either picks or it doesn't when your turn on your ignition. None of the windows would work in either direction if your relay wasn't picking. If someone has conntected your relay trigger wire to the PWR tab (instead of the IGN tab) in your fuse box, the relay will be picked all the time (assuming your battery is charged and connected). Note that such a connection will allow your windows to operate without the ignition on which is convenient, but is also a significant security risk. When I installed a factory '72 power window system in my '70 last winter, I had similar unreliable operation symptoms during final system testing. I had bench tested the relay and each of the regulator motors and knew they were good. I could also operate the passenger front and both rear windows from their individual single switches so I knew the motors were getting power through those switches. It turned out to be a worn out master switch. Rather than replace it with a repop unit (around $80 each), I simply picked up another master switch from a salvage yard, carefully opened it, thoroughly cleaned the switch rockers, connector pins and contact points and swapped that unit into my original switch housing (which had better chrome). That solved all my window operation problems. The master switch gets the most use and the contacts wear down where the limited travel of the switch rocker can't make good enough contact for reliable operation. I would bet simply replacing your master switch will solve your problems. Of course, you can also try to disassemble your current master switch and lightly polish the contacts on the inside and the connector pins on the outside. Do not file them down or they won't work at all. Getting the switch plate firmly reattached to the switch housing is tricky, but can be done. You have to be very careful bending the small retaining tabs on the pot metal frame or they will break off. If you decide to tackle rebuilding your current master switch, I have quite a few pictures and some more pointers I can share. Just let me know.

Abe, ditto to what Mark and Darren have already shared on installing front guards. Regarding upper hole location, if you have new guards or just don't want to remove the inserts (they are not so easy to get reseated correctly) you can also use a fine-point Sharpie to mark the intersection of outside edges of the guard (once positioned) with the bumper in the area of the upper mount and find the hole location by direct measurement transfer from the guard to the bumper (horizontally between your marks and vertically from the bottom edge of your bumper). When the front guards are correctly positioned, the distance between the OUTSIDE edges of the front guards at the exact point where they contact the top of your bumper should be 18.5". I have not had experience installing the rear guards (yet). Good luck with your project. My first new '70 had both front and rear bumper guards and I've loved that look ever since ... trying to get back to it on both of my current '70s.

No, Kenny, I'm at our new lake home in Minnesota for the summer. I saw the email notice on the show tomorrow at Muscle Car City. Hope you and Dale can make it. If it's too hot and humid to sit outside, you can alway check out the indoor museum - it's cool in more ways than one! Enjoy your Monte and your summer visit to Florida!

Yo, Kenny, looks like you are back in Florida! Just visiting or on summer break from school in NY? Welcome back to the forums. What's next for the Monte?

Larry, You can clearly see the bolts holding the front bracket to the inner fender in Dan's post #363229 in the following thread. They appear to the the tapered-nose variety that appear in lots of places on first gen Montes. http://www.fgmcc.com/ubbthreads/ubbthrea...3246#Post363246 I don't have a photo that confirms the bolts used on the rear bracket, but I would assume they are the same.

Jeff, I just left my 4-speed, console car in Florida for the next 6 months or I would try to get you a measurement. Actually, I think it would be rather difficult to make either of those bottom side measurements with a transmission in the car. I do have a suggestion, however. You can see in the photo below where the shifter cut-out frame is in relation to the front console mounting pad. I think I can see both of those two holes in the underside photo in your post. That might get you in the ball park. My second suggestion is that you get one of those metal frames that clamp the shifter boot to the transmission tunnel (as shown in the photo above) and position it on the transmission tunnel where the hump should be. Both the front and back are very near the cutout so eyeballing the frame on your transmission tunnel and imagining a hump that looks like the photo above should also get you close. I doubt that the tolerance is very tight on that hole cutout. Sorry I can't be of more assistance.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback, Rod and others. This is a pretty comprehensive project as I tried to portray in my initial project outline, So far we've only addressed parts of two of the fifteen topics. I will obviously incorporate what I have already writen into my project photo journal and possibly a Word document, as well. But ... there is much, much more to see and know about this type of combined project. Because of the illustrated document Rainer shared (initially written for a Buick A-body installation), I was able to get through this project without too much difficulty, but there were a lot of details and Monte-specific quirks that I had to learn the hard way. So, my objective is to create a first gen Monte-specific, photo-illustrated project document that covers more detail and shows at least one successful way to do everything. Since that will take some time (and I'm moving my Wichita household and SS Monte to Crosslake, MN in three weeks), I will try to address specific questions as they come up. One thing that I discovered by accident is the potential for serious injury caused by those coil springs you see on the regulators, especially the power regulators. The only minor injury I incurred (a small chunk of flesh removed from a middle finger), was because I didn't first tightly secure the spring-loaded actuator arm when I removed the power regulator gear box/motor for cleaning/regreasing. It could have been very bad ... I was lucky! I will cover that in detail in the section on refurbishing used components.

Doing the door windows is the same process, BUT I found I had to move the actuator arm (by applying 12V power to the motor) several times while installing it through the door access opening, starting with the arm in the full up position and gradually lowering it as the motor part of the regulator was lowered further into the door. Just take your time, use small adustments and pay close attention to wherever the contact points or restirctions are at the moment. Like I said, it doesn't look possible with the glass and track in place, but it IS! Here are some shots of the door installation in the horizontal position. Note the masking tape on the sharp edges of the door access openings. If you happen to enjoy the sight of blood on your arms and hands, you can skip this step. After unbolting and removing the manual regulator through the largest access hole, position the power regulator over its mounting holes (already in the door) so you know what position you must achieve. Note that the actuator arm (in Photo above) is in the window DOWN position and MUST be repositioned (by applying a 12V source to the correct motor leads) to the window UP position before installing into the door. You will then gradually lower the arm as the installation proceeds. Be aware the the motor leads only take positive power (one for each direction UP or DOWN) while the frame is always the negative/ground (see photo below). Obviously, you should only connect the positive lead to ONE of the motor leads at a time (either up or down) and then touch the negative lead ONLY to the frame to momentarily power the motor and move the actuator arm. The motor end goes in first .... Followed by the main regulator body .... Rotating the body down and in .... Followed by the actuator arm ... Lower the window a bit and insert the guide wheel into the track .... Then bolt the power unit into place and attach the wiring harness. Here's the driver's door back on the car with the power regulator and power lock both installed and the wiring harnesses being attached (after pulling them into the door and attaching the accordian grommet between the door and cowl). Here's a shot of the passenger door with the wiring hanesses secured in place and the door ready for switches and final testing before re-installing the door panels. I realize this is more than you probably wanted to see, but photos of the installation process are probably more helpful than pictures of the final result. Let me know if I can answer any other questions. It will be awhile before the project photo journal is available.

Second question first... I LOVE how these windows work! I reworked the factory power windows on my SS Car but these work even faster! The ONLY problem I am still dealing with is one position on the master switch (raising the passenger window from the driver's master switch), but I am sure I can solve it by reworking or replacing the switch (you can take the switches apart but it is somewhat risky). Now the first question .... Yes, I managed to get pictures off my camera onto my computer, but I don't know when I'll have time to organize them into a project photo journal. I will attach a few pictures of the power regulator installation process to this reply but can provide others if/when you need them. First, it is much easier to remove the manual regulators than to install the power regulators. Second, it is much easier to swap the rear window regulators than the door window regulators. Third, I found it actually easier to swap the door window regulator with the door still on the car (I did the driver's door when it was off the car for the hole drilling. I had it laying horizontal on a padded Workmate.) because it seems that gravity helps pull the power regulator into place. Either way works, however. When you look at the access holes in the doors, you wonder how in the world you can remove and install the regulators at all. Well, it's trick, but possible. There is only one oddly-shaped hole that can be used, of course. Note: you do NOT have to remove the glass or the track it runs on, however, the window glass MUST be in up position. Be sure to secure the window in the up position before removing the manual regulator. I used a small vice grip on the door window track and masking tape on the rear windows. I will break this into two reply posts: the rear windows are below and the door windows are in a following post. Here's a shot of the two 5/16" lower mounting holes you must drill (at dimpled locations) BEFORE installing the power regulator. Here's a shot of the 1 1/8" hole you must drill (at the dimpled location) for the wiring harnes grommet. Here's a shot of a rear power regulator going in. Note: I loosened the upper and lower adjustment bolts of the window track and flexed it over (normal adjustment room) to get the power regulators in. You do not have to remove the bolts or the track, however. Note how the actuator arm is in the fully raised position (see below). You MUST be able to adjust the position of this arm DURING the installation, meaning you must have a 12V DC power source (I used a spare boat battery) with the proper leads and clips to carefully run the regulator motor the proper direction to reposition the actuator arm as necessary. BEFORE you bolt the power regulator into position, you must lower the window enough to slide the actuator guide wheel into its track. Obviously, it is easier to grease all of the tracks, wheels and pivot points before installing the power regulator. Here's a shot of the passenger side rear window installation with the power regulator installed and the wiring harness in place ready for final testing. See the next post for shots of the door window installation.

Installed Airlift bags in the rear springs of my blue '70 and terminated individual lines and schrader valves in the frame crossmember near the gas filler neck with easy access when the license plate is pulled down. Now have at least 3" of height adjustment based on air pressure, as well as, load and ride compensation. You can even get fancy (I didn't) by getting an onboard air pump and cockpit controls. These systems are built for leveling RVs so they can easily handle your Monte's weight.

I picked up the expansion fuse panel at Advance Auto for around $13. It is made by Buss Fuses Cat. No. BP/15600-06-20. It has six power taps, each rated up to 30 Amps and individually fuses with the modern style fuses or circuit breakers. This is how mine looks already installed under the dash (camera is looking up). The 10 AWG wire at the top come directly from a power tap on the positive side post of the battery. The power windows are plugged into one side and the locks into the other, each with 30 A fuses (in this photo). Here's a photo of my factory fuse panel. The blank spots in the upper left of the panel are for a main power lug (right hole) and main fuse (left and center hole) which are both missing because my car was built without power options. I may not have looked hard enough or long enough, but I couldn't come up with original or OEM parts that fit the factory panel. Also, I couldn't find a dedicated power wire coming into panel from the matching wire harness plug at the firewall. So, I decided to run a new dedicated main power line direct from the battery, following the wire harness under the radiator support toward the horn relay, bypassing the relay and continuing up the left fender to the firewall and through the firewall (new hole and grommet) beside the factory fuse panel. I used a Side Mount Battery Tap/Ground Kit by Battery Doctor, also from Advance Auto. Here's a shot of the battery tap and the final connection. Here are a couple of shots of the power line (black wire running across the photo bypassing the horn relay) routing to and through the firewall. Note the factory wire harness plug to the fuse panel in the lower left of the photo. I connected the pink wire from the power window relay to the IGN (ignition) tab on the factory panel so the windows only work when the ignition is on. I is too risky to have them live all the time, but you can easily do that by connecting the pink wire to the BAT (battery) tab on the factory fuse panel. BTW, since the BAT tab is fused at 20 A from the factory, you cannot run the power windows directly from that tab (ask me how I know). There are probably lots of cooler ways to do all of the above, but this worked for me. Sorry for the long reply - hope it helps.

Rod, regarding making the large holes in the door (2" dia) and cowl (2 3/8" dia), I suppose Houdini with a surgical laser might be able to do it without removing the doors. I used a metal hole saw AFTER removing the doors. There simply is not enough room to use that technique with the doors on, reardless of which direction you come at it. The small access holes in the door do not allow you to reach that area from the inside and even if you remove the driver's kick panel (next to impossible on a non-AC Astro Vent car like mine), you don't have access to that position on the cowl from the inside, either. Strangely, the power window relay mounts inside that space and it is difficult enough to reach (hope I never have to replace it!). I can see that the alternative approach Carl suggested for actually cutting the holes would also work (I've used one of those tools to cut knockout holes in electrical boxes), but I doubt that it could be done with the doors on for the same access limitations mentioned above. But wait, taking the doors off and rehanging them is NOT such a bid deal. I was extremely nervous about it, having never done it before, but it's not so bad. There are a couple of important preparations steps: 1. If you care about your paint job (as most of us do), be sure to completely mask the door edges and the opposing edge of the front quarter. 2. Use a fine-point Sharpie marker and trace the edge of both hinges where they mate to the door. You can align the door to these marks when you re-hang it and it will close just like it did before (assuming that's what you want, of course). 3. Place a floor jack under the middle of the door and raise it to just barely lift the door (if you sit on the seat or floor (seat removed) while you unbolt the hinges, there will be some upward pressure on the door hinge because of your weight on the car, so don't be surprised when the last bolt comes loose). 4. Have another person standing on the outside of the door to steady the door on the jack. I used my wife for this (made her nervous, too!) When the last bolt is out, carefully pull the jack away from the car with the door still on it so nothing collides when you lift the door off the jack. I found it easier to handle the door with the glass down inside. Now you have great access to cut the holes in the door and cowl, respectively, whatever method you want to use. I found a 2 3/8" Milwaukee hole saw at Home Depot that is the perfect diameter for the cowl end of the accordian grommet. Don't be in a rush to rehang the doors because there is a lot you can and should do while they are off. I actually placed the driver's door up on my Workmate (with two heavy blankets between to protect the paint) and did the regulator swap and testing that way. Note: I do NOT recommend installing the power lock solenoids with the door in a horizontal orientation as you need gravity to help you position it correctly in a very tight space. All of the power importation, fuse panel wiring and wiring harness installation in and under the dash is easier done with the doors off and the front bench or driver's bucket out, also. Rehanging the doors is a bit trickier proposition. I got my son-in-law to help with this task (not wishing to end my marriage just yet). Before placing the door back on the jack, be sure one end of the accordian grommet is mounted to either the door or the cowl (best) with the wiring harness sticking through it. Roll the jack and door into a position close enough to feed the wires into the other structure (door or cowl) and then even closer to seat the boot and start the hinge bolts. The adjusting plate in the door has conveniently dropped down by now so you have to reach inside the door to position it for the first and second bolts. Take up the slack on the bolts, align the hinges to the tracing marks on the door and snug up one bolt. Do the same on the other hinge and then tighten all the bolts, checking to see that you are still aligned with the tracing marks. Now it's just a matter of connecting the door and dash harnesses together and putting the interior back together. Simple, huh? Regarding the fuse block, I don't doubt that you could get a fuse block from a salvaged Monte that had power accessories and swap it out, but I am not that much of a purist, at least for this car. I (foolishly) took fuse block loose from the firewall, thinking I would add the missing main power tap and fuse in their standard location. I suppose it could be done, but I could not find aftermarket parts that fit the old-style fuse block. It was much easier to just buy a small accessory fuse block with six 30 A power tabs and modern pluggable fuses and bring a dedicate 10 AWG wire direct from a positive terminal battery tap through the firewall (new hole and grommet) close to the factory fuse block. I mounted the new fuse block to the forward edge of the lower dash housing (just right of the park brake release handle). There was already an ignition kill switch mounted in that area so it fit right in and is much more accessible for changing fuses, if necessary. Actually, I have a 30 A auto resetting circuit breaker for the power windows and a 20 A circuit breaker for the door locks. Like most projects, after you've done it "once in a row", the mystery and worry subside because you know several ways that won't work and at least one that will. I think pictures will be helpful but it will be at least a month before I can reload my camera software (in storage in Wichita right now), assuming the Geek Squad didn't completely destroy my computer by reloading the operating system.

Installing factory power door locks in a Monte that already has power windows should be much quicker and easier. I would do it in a heartbeat on my SS car except I want to keep it completely original (matching its Build Sheet) for now. For starters, you aready have a main power tap and fuse in the factory fuse block so no power importing. Also, you aready have a wiring path to the doors so no door removal or hole cutting is required. Since no wiring runs to the back seat area, the driver's seat and carpet are undisturbed. All that would be required is removing and modifying the door panels and removing the dash pad. However, unless you have exactly matching year/model-specific solenoids, you can spend a lot of time figuring out the proper mounting location and fabricating custom-length linkage rods (ask me how I know). There are lots of different A-body solenoids that look and work the same but they have different mounting brackets and hole locations. BTW, the original factory hole locations are clearly marked with three dimples on the lower rear face of each door. I, too, have wondered about adding a key fob acuator to a factory system. I haven't researched it yet, but I'll bet it is possible and not too difficult nor expensive to do. All that should be required is to insert a wireless receiver/switch into the circuit with one or more key fob transmitters. There are possibly complete aftermarket systems available that could be adapted/installed, also. I'll bet that some of our more creative and proactive members have already done it so maybe they'll tell us how.

I finally completed a week-long project of installing power windows and power door locks in my ’70 4-speed Monte. I took my time, learned a lot, took lots of pictures and am very pleased with the results. From the perspective of a novice car hobbyist/mechanic, this is no slam-dunk project, but it is certainly doable with common tools, adequate time and patience. My primary objective was to make this car more “user-friendly” for my wife and myself because when we are in Florida during the winters we drive it frequently for errands, going out to dinner and occasionally just cruising. Rolling up the manual windows and locking or unlocking the car for each other at every stop was an unnecessary inconvenience. Our first new 1970 Monte had power everything and our SS Monte has power windows so we knew this car could be improved. Thanks to Rainer (Malibu 400) for the complete power window set up and instruction documents (without which I would have been completely lost) and to Doug (FOUROHTOO) for the power door lock set up. BTW, neither system was specifically for a 1970 Monte Carlo but were ‘71/’72 vintages. The only visible difference is square versus rounded corners on the door mounted switches. I was more interested in functionality than originality and I can easily replace the switches with the rounded corner variety if I ever decide to (not likely). I took lots of pictures but my computer is still in the Geek Squad hospital so no sharing yet. I hope to create one or more project photo journals and have been thinking about a way to organize the project topics/phases. Just to give some idea of the scope and content of this project, I have included a preliminary outline below. All 15 of these areas must be included if your car currently has no power accessories in the cockpit and/or doors. If you have any power accessories already in the doors, some areas can be eliminated. Here’s the preliminary project outline: Power Window and Power Door Lock Installation I. Planning and Preparation II. Acquiring Regulators, Solenoids, Wiring Harnesses and Switches III. Testing and Refurbishing Used Parts IV. Removing the Dash Pad, Seats, Door Panels and Carpet (if necessary) V. Importing 30 A Main Power to the Cockpit VI. Removing and Re-hanging Doors VII. Cutting Wire Routing Holes VIII. Removing Manual Window Regulators IX. Installing Power Window Regulators X. Installing Door Lock Solenoids XI. Installing Wiring Harnesses and Switches XII. Connecting and Testing the System(s) XIII. Modifying Door Panels XIV. Replacing Dash Pad, Seats, Door Panels and Carpet (if necessary) XV. Final System Test and Troubleshooting I’d be happy to visit with anyone who is considering such a project for their first gen Monte – just sent me a PM.

Whoa, Willie, what an amazing transformation! Beautiful work - looks better than new! Did you do all that yourself?

Nope, my blue '70 was built without P/S. It now has factory P/S, thankfully. Salvage guy wanted the manual box for his 442 so I traded him for some other Monte parts.

Great info, Tazman, thanks for sharing. I ran both of my Build Sheets though the list and found all but two codes. Like Jake, I found GW4 256 REAR AXLE missing and also PH1 15X7 WHEEL. By the first week in May, my SS car will live in Crosslake, MN. How far is that from where your SS car lives, Tazman? Maybe we can get together with our Montes at some local car show. I know Crosslake has one in late September during "Crosslake Days" and I expect there are many others in the area. Can't wait...

Mike, I bought a used power steering pump and steering box for my '70 4-speed that was built with manual steering. I had to partially disassemble the pump to clean it and paint it before installation. The main bearing and shaft seemed to be in good shape so I did not replace the bearing but I suspect they can still be found or ordered. I agree that the symptoms you describe suggest a worn bearing. Leaks of powering steering fluid can also be from the fittings on your steering box (need to be super tight) and cracked or split hoses. The one thing I did learn is that you need to exercise great care when you pull the drive pulley from the shaft. The metal web is quite thin and is very easy to deform (ask me how I know) unless you pull it evenly and slowly. I suggest a three-armed puller and periodically tapping firmly with a hammer on the center shaft of the puller to ease it off. I think I remember seeing a section on rebuilding a power steering pump in one of my Monte chasis service manuals. I'll see what I can find and let you know.

Your assumption is correct, Michael, there IS a trick or two involved. Sorry I don't have a picture, but I've done it a couple times so this is from memory. You will need to remove your dash pad to get to the switch so take out the six screws that are in the upper lip of the dash and glove box door, lift the dash pad about an inch and pull it straight toward you. It's held in place by about five friction clips along the front edge so you may have to tug a bit to loosen it. There is a fairly large electrical connector attached to the switch body so you should pull that off. Then, find the small plunger in the switch body that is perpendicular to the light switch shaft and either press it in or pull it out (can remember which) while you pull out on the knob and the shaft and knob/shaft assembly should come out in your hand. Now you can more easily get to the nut/retainer ring that holds the switch body against the dash. Look at the front and note the two slots in the retaining ring against the outside face of the dash. Use a small, adjustable spanner wrench to unscrew that retainer ring and the switch can then be removed from the back side. If you don't have a spanner wrench, you can use a couple of flat-blade screwdrivers in the slots and turn them in unison or even an inside "C" ring pliers inserted into the two slots to loosen and remove that retainer ring. If I remember correctly, I think Bruce has some great pictures that might help you. Maybe he will chime in here. Good luck!