Worried..... I have a noise. Help

[BigBlockMonte]

I have a noise that just started and I'm worried what it is. It may be nothing serious, but I wanted to ask here before I develope more gray hair thinking about it.

 

Here's the set-up

 

4 bolt main 468

eagle rods w/Je Pistons

10.2 compression

Pro Comp Heads. 320cc runners, 2.25 intake 1.88 exhuast (rect port)

scorpion 1.7 roller rockers

pro comp push rods 3/8

eddy air gap w/ Holley 850

XE284h camshaft 574/578 lift 240/246 @.50

Proform HEI w/scott performance wires. NGK plugs gapped at .35

Hooker Comp Headers w/3" Exhaust & Flowmaster Mufflers

Holley 130LPH fuel pump w/ 3/8 line from tank to carb.

Yukon Dura Grip Posi w/3.73 gear

 

 

Okay, Ever since I got the engine together I have always shifted at 6500 or a little sooner.

 

After I changed the gear I took the car out for a ride, and when I shifted like I normally do, I heard a noise around 6500.

 

I went back and grabbed my buddy and had him listen, this time it came in a little earlier (approx 5500). Did a couple pulls, second time had the window down and I shifted around 5500 ( no noise). Another pull and it's there right past 5500.

 

Buddy first said it was valve float, but changed his mind when the car doesn't stop pulling when the noise happens, then just started throwing out ideas, saying maybe it's timing, or maybe its fuel. So I started thinking maybe I'll ask someone else.

 

The noise is hard to describe, it almost sounds like a rattle knock of some sort. it's not pinging. Its a deeper sounding noise. I hear it with the windows up, sounds to me its coming from the drivers side of the engine. I'm really bad at describing sounds, but I'm hoping someone may have experienced this noise before.

 

The springs in the head, I have no idea what they are. I believe manley, and they are good up to a 600 lift. I did have my machine shop checked them out before install, they told me the springs were the correct spring height for what the cam called for. That was all they told me.

 

This just started day before yesterday. No noise at idle, or anything below 5500.

[Sam (Bones)]

is the speed of the noise at crankshaft speed or camshaft speed?

 

remember...camshaft spins at 1/2 crankshaft rpm, this should help at where to start checking

 

speculations...a lifter going bad, maybe a rod bearing, losing a cam lobe, a valve spring going bad, I can go on

[TommyP]

I guess the first thing that I would do is pull the valve coves off and take a look to see if everything looks good and there are no loose rockers or spring problems. Seems like a good starting spot.

[kc8oye]

[BigBlockMonte]

took the valve covers off, valve adjustment, springs, etc look good. Took my neighbor for a ride, a he confirms it's engine break up.

 

I swapped out the plug wires, still the same thing. so tomm. I have another distributor, I'm gonna switch out the caps first and see what that does, Or i may switch out the entire distributor.

 

The distributor I have (proform) was used, so maybe there is a problem with it at high rpms.

[TommyP]

Hopefully you find that it's something easy and cheap to fix.

[BigBlockMonte]

If I do need another complete distributor. Which one do you feel will be the easiest & best ignition set-up for my engine.

 

I'm open to anything. Thanks everyone.

 

If you can, please provide part numbers & websites so I know where to go and purchase.

 

Thanks again

[kc8oye]

I've not a tried a lot of different units, but the MSD ProBillet "Ready-to-Run" (Part #8360) is a VERY excellent unit. drop it in, it wires up like a points distributor.. power, ground, two wires to the coil and you have a very solid 'hei' type distributor with LOTS of room for adjustment. also makes adding an MSD 6AL or 6AL-2 a breeze (for multiple-spark)

btw.. you will want to run the MSD Blaster 2 coil with it too.

 

MSD #8360 $270

 

MSD Blaster 2 #8202 $36

 

the MSD E-curve is a pretty nifty unit too. a bit more expensive, but you can set timing curve and vacum advance options with dials on the side of the distributor, and it does't have a visible vac. advance can if that matter to you.

 

[BigBlockMonte]

okay starting to get a little more worried here. Like I said before swapped out wires... no luck. Today I swapped out to a different cap & coil. no luck. My neighbor said to regap the plugs to .45 instead of the .35 I had it at. Why??? I don't know, but for laughs I did it. No luck. I even disconnected the vacuum advance. no luck. I haven't changed the actual distributor as of yet. I have a use one laying the garage but haven't put it in yet. I'm doubting anything will change.

 

What else can I look for. Like I said this noise is only as you approach 5500rpms. you can shift all day long at 5k and not know anything was wrong.

 

One more thing, I didn't test the wire going to the batt plug on the HEI. I never changed anything different so I looked past it. If for some reason, I'm not getting 12volts anymore from there. Could I run that wire to the battery with a toggle switch on it to turn it off an on. Just reaching here.

 

Okay she's in your hands. I'm lost

[wallaby]

Hmmm....I'm not sure why you are focused on ignition problems. I wouldn't think of ignition system causing noises unless it was pinging from too much timing advance. You could simply retard the timing about 4 degrees and see if it makes any difference.

High RPMs cause all kinds of things to act funny. The rods stretch and let your pistons get closer to the heads, and valves tend to "float" or continue to open beyond the peak of the cam lobe (like a motorcycle over a jump) and that causes the valves to open deeper into the cylinders and the springs to squash further towards coil bind...

Do you see where we're going here? As engine speed increases the pistons reach further upward and the valves reach further downward, and and all those moving parts start getting closer to colliding with one another inside the engine. Clearances that are good at low speeds may not be enough at high speed.

 

Really I don't have the answer, and can't even suggest a quick fix. It might be time to start double-checking your springs for signs of coil-bind, or rocker arms for contact with the rocker arm studs, etc. Sadly, piston-to-valve clearances and piston-to-head clearances can only be done by removing the heads.

Really I doubt your noise is coming from anything ignition or fuel related unless it is indeed detonation or pinging.

As a last-ditch effort, you can try drizzling a bit of water down into the carb as your FULLY WARMED engine idles. Use one hand to regulate the throttle to keep it running, and the other hand to let water slowly drizzle past your thumb from a soda bottle into the carb. The idea is that a little steam created in the cylinders is often enough to break up any carbon deposits that might be in the head chamber or piston tops. It's not as common a problem as it once was because gasolines are better now, but a bit of carbon on the head plus a bit on the piston can be enough to make the two pieces touch at high revs. I don't expect you will have any great sucess with this method, but it's worth a try.

[BowtieThunder]

Yess you can run a wire from Battery through switch if you want that will work.Have you changed the coil pack on the cap ..... good be a bad coil

[BigBlockMonte]

well I know what it is now. Fired her up today to find it missing pretty good. At first I thought the distributor died, so I replaced the distributor, plugs, & wires. No dice. I did a compression test. All Cylinders show 190psi on the money. With the exception of one. #3. #3 showed zero,

 

I pull the valve cover to find the spring is broke and holding the valve open.

 

Now I'm kinda scared, I can replace the springs no problems there. But I'm wondering if the valve being open got smacked areound from the piston.

 

Tomm, I'm going to borrow the tool that puts air in the cylinder to change the spring. I'm guessing if it doesn't hold any pressure, or if I can hear it coming out the exhasut then the valve is bent. And off with the head. Damn

 

I can't win. but I'm happy to know what it is now

[Mike 57]

How many miles on the springs?

Was that a new engine?

I would be changing all of them!

[CrazyDavey]

Mariano since you bought the engine sorta used I would follow Mike's suggestion and change all if them. Make sure you find the suggested seat and open pressures and check that as well.

 

Just a suggestion, you might want to think about lowering your shift points a tad, 6500 is a little high for that combo...

Dave

[wallaby]

I had problems with Comp springs. I broke 2 of them at different times before I chose to go with a different brand and have had no issues since.

My problem was with the Comp 911 spring. Maybe the part number should have been my clue. LOL. I see your cam requires a different spring altogether..a double spring even. The footnotes say the head needs machining to accept those springs.

I'd guess that with a dual spring, one of the coils probably survived the breakage and should be able to close your valve. If it's hanging open, it's probably bent.

[BigBlockMonte]

well i got lucky guys. The springs on the head were a single spring. I was worried. But I went and changed it out for another spring(temporary). Did a compression test and its at 190psi like the rest of the cylinders. Since nothing was damamged. (luckily). I'm going to call up comp cams or lunati and see if they can provide another spring thats a single spring with the same pressure required as the 924-16 dual spring.

 

This way I'll be able to change the springs one by one in the car without taking the heads off. My machine shop told me I would have to remove the heads to install a dual valve spring in the car.

 

I don't know. I do know that I don't want to take the engine apart again, and I can get away with a single spring that meets the cams requirements, I'm doing that.

 

I fired it up and everything soundsas it should. I'll be taking it on a ride here in a few. I'll report back with the results

[Mike 57]

I use this compressor to change springs on the head. on head compressor My springs are dual with damper and I have no issues compressing them

[BuffaloBillPatri]

Check out Lunati Beehives, they are rebranded PAC springs & cheaper. (Summit)

 

Best out there, Kobe Japanese steel. Beehives control the valve train better & are good for about 750 more RPMs compared with standard dual springs at the same pressures.

 

I don't know it they have what you need.

 

I put mine on with the heads on & it was a PITA but worked.

 

BBP

[kc8oye]

are you running a gear drive? I was reading a thread on hotrodders.com that using a gear drive with solid lifters can set up severe harmonics that will wipe out valve springs...

 

just tossing that out there..

[BigBlockMonte]

I use this compressor to change springs on the head. on head compressor My springs are dual with damper and I have no issues compressing them

 

you don't live far from me. we should meet, maybe you could give me some pointers on getting my car to run at its best. It's runs okay, but for the set-up I thought it would be a little more.

 

I'm 30 miles south of pittsburgh pa.

[Andy's Auto]

Originally Posted By: Mike 57

I use this compressor to change springs on the head. on head compressor My springs are dual with damper and I have no issues compressing them

 

you don't live far from me. we should meet, maybe you could give me some pointers on getting my car to run at its best. It's runs okay, but for the set-up I thought it would be a little more.

 

I'm 30 miles south of pittsburgh pa.

 

I plan on moving next door to Mike one of these days just to figure out how to get two tons of Detroit iron to run low 11's. I did it....with spray. And out engines are not that different.

 

BBM, please take my advice. Buy a bigger cam, something in the .630 lift 26o duration area and let those Pro ET heads breathe a little. It is like a big giant doorf that only opens halfway.

 

Andy

[kc8oye]

Andy.. there was a member here.. Daryl Smith. he was in the low 9's with his monte.... 300shot of nitrous to get it there tho

 

Leo's monte had run low 11's on the motor...

(it's not that hard if your pockets are deep enough!)

[BigBlockMonte]

 

BBM, please take my advice. Buy a bigger cam, something in the .630 lift 26o duration area and let those Pro ET heads breathe a little. It is like a big giant doorf that only opens halfway.

 

Andy

 

I have this camshaft that came with the motor. I didn't think my converter would be enough, or my gear. Goin by what lunati says. What are your thoughts.

 

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2044&gid=248

[BigBlockMonte]

I plan on moving next door to Mike one of these days just to figure out how to get two tons of Detroit iron to run low 11's. I did it....with spray. And our engines are not that different.

 

Andy

 

With spray doing low 11's. I would love to see mine do a 11.8 to 12.0. That would be a dream come true. I'm not sure if the combo i put together is enough in a 4000lb car.