snomobeelr Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 1st of all I am horrible with electric. I am putting the car back together eveything was apart. I just got a new Battery. When connecting the Battery it sparks. Not those small connection sparks but a short or somthing. I disconected the starter wires and it still shorts. I disconected the Engine to the interior fuseblock and it still shorts. Thought I was maybe being paranoid so I connected the battery and the small wire from the Positive Battery to the Junction on the core support fried. I do have a test light and Multimeter. Here is a dumb question when battery not connected and I do a continuity test with the multimeter from the Ground cable to the positve cable there is a connection. This is using the speaker option on the Multimeter. I am assuming that is the issue. I have the ground for the battery to the engine block. I also have a small ground wire from the Negative battery lead to the Core support. Any suggestions appricated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Troubleshooting skills is something you gain with time.. a lot of trial and error. Though if you're are missing the essential tools doing what you're doing works well (isolating items in the circuit) I've seen alternators go to ground..more info would help? What have you done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hey Allen, as Rod said it will come with time your trouble shooting will be just second nature after some years... Ditto on needing more info such as the year of Monte as the wiring harness is different between the years of 70-72 and when re-assembling as you mentioned are you re using the same wiring or did you switch harnesses ?? Most of the Battery hook ups I hjave seen as Rod mentioned was the large negative cable mounted on the Alternator bracket and then the secondary wire grounded out on the pass side fender about 6" away from the negative post.. any new parts ?? Alternator, horn relay, voltage reg ??? Darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGD72Monte Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'd be following the wires, especially any that you disturbed during your work. I once pinched a wire during re-assembly and as soon as I reconnected the battery I fried a fusable link so have a look to make sure none of the bundles are snaged. Â Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomobeelr Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 I have the Ground cable for the battery hookup to the passenger side head on the engine. I also have secondary ground small wire to the core support. There are no new electrical parts. My Car was running and driving prior to the start of a frame off Resto. Its a 1971 Monte Non A/C car. I had replaced the wiring harness (engine&interior) back in 1994. I pulled everything off and out of the car. Right now the Body back on the car but no feneders, wheelwells or doors yet. I Put the motor/Trans entire drivetrain and core support back in .I Put the dash and wiring back in. I am fiannly ready to start the car. When I went to hook up the battery for the 1st time is when this started. Prior to doing any work/restoration I had replaced the aletrnator with an Internal Regulator Alternator and removed the external Regulator.. The car was running fine with that configuration when I started the project. Two things I know I did while putting car back together is I shortened the alternator wire , there was an extension plug I removed. I also had plugs for the accessories like oil pressure temp and stuff on the loom that I am not going to use. So I cut the plugs off and taped up each individual wire.. I disconected the engine to the interior harness and same issue. Ill pull the radiator to make sue I didnt pinch anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black07ss Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Easiest way to find a short is to leave off one battery cable. I then put a meter on ohms or a test light from the battery to the unhooked cable. You will be in series with the circuit and if there is current flow the meter will show what the load is. If you use a test light the light will be bright or dim depending how strong the load is. It will be normal for a dim light on a test light if you have a radio or clock that is always pulling a low current which is normal. Once you set that up start pulling one fuse at a time check the light or meter until you find it. If that doesn't get it disconnect any other wire one at a time. Until you find it. That is how I do it, nothing easy about it but electric can be a stinker at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 if you have a short after the fuse block, it should pop a fuse, and if you're not popping fuses it should be between the fuse block and the battery if you've already made sure the wiring to the starter and alt are ok, I would look around the horn relay voltage regulator  the old fashion way is to hook it up and wait til you see smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I would check the starter connections a second and third time, not just visually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomobeelr Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 I had tried the Old fahioned way not on purpose of course and the thin wire from the Positve Battery cable to the Junction block in the core support is the one that fried.. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 if it was me....I would start by following the wire that goes from the junction block to the horn relay, because you fried the wire to the junction block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomobeelr Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 So I started off Like Sam said from the wire that goes from the Junction block to the Horn Relay. But wasnt sure how to proceed. The only thing I know how to use on the Multimeter is the Speaker/Continuity test. So then I disconected the Horn relay and same thing issue - sparks. I then disconected the last wire that was hooked up,the red Wire to the Alternator. I disconected the red Wire to the Alternator and tried to connect the battery and WALLA that was the one. I connected the Horn Relay the starter and I can connet the battery no problem. So the issue appears to be somthing with the Red wire to the Alternator now i need to figure out why.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 If disconnecting the alternator removes the short I'd say the alternator could be the problem? you could have a shorted diode inside alternator. You need to determine which side of the connection is giving you the fault? The wire end or the alternator stud? Check both to ground? Check for open or ground-shorted alternator field. Most 12V alternators will have 3-6 ohm resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 glad you found it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomobeelr Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 So I got the alternator tested and it was good. Then some more testing and Called my cousin who had the same opinion as Rod. With the battery out of the car. And all the wires diconected from the Alternator.. One end of Multimeter to the Stud on the Alternator and the the other end to the Battery Ground cable - BEEP BEEP. There was continuity/Short.. So looks Like it is the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 there should be a plastic bushing that insulates it from the alt case/shell...is it missing, broke or something??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomobeelr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 I saw the plastic bushing on there. But appears it was cracked or somthing. Only reason I took alternator to Autozone to test it in the 1st place is it was Sunday. The Place I get my Alternator and starter's (Morton Grove Electric) is closed on Sundays. Had my Wife take it there today. They guy said the pose shorting was the issue. My wife called while she was still there because he wanted to know if I wanted a 1 wire alternator. Since the car is not going to be original I said that would be good. So should be ready when I get home.. Thanks Everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Great reading. Glad you solved your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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